[namechange] Find the perfect mixer/console?

[Grahambo!]

Don't own these yet, but I'm going to ditch my presonus firestudio project for an Audiofire 12 and a Soundcraft Spirit M12.

Question though on routing:

Too properly hook these guys into my Macbook running Ableton live...

Plug each M12 channels' direct-outs into the inputs in the Audiofire... Audio fire firewired into my Macbook.... OK got it.

Now. I wouldn't HEAR that audio from Ableton coming out would I? We're a 3-piece band. We will be recording with headphones. Can anyone explain to me how I go about setting this up so we can monitor what's being recorded while playing, recording, etc?

Also... how would I hook up some monitors/speakers? Just plug them into the Mixer's master outs or something? But would they be receiving any signal?

[Al_Huero]

The direct outs on the M12 are pre-fader; so you can set all your preamp gains to get your desired signal level into the Audiofire/Ableton. You can then adjust the faders and use the headphone output on the M12 to get your headphone mix during tracking. Does the Audiofire have any analog outputs? I'd figure you'd hook your monitors up to it to do your mixing out of Ableton.

[Grahambo!]

It has 12 channels of analog in and 12 analog out.

So I could just plug my monitors into say Outs 1 & 2 (granted I make those my master out in Ableton) and I'm good to go?

What if I want the EQ and everything on the M12 to be POST-FADER? Would I plug the M12 direct outs into the Audiofire 12, and then connect the M12 inserts into the Audiofire 12 analog outs?

Then my monitors would plug into the L&R Monitor jacks on the M12?

Wouldn't that allow me to mix in ableton using the Mixer, not just a mouse? That's sort of what I'm going for.

I want to be able to track my 3-piece band using 3 headphones (I'll get a headphone amp probably), and be able to use the EQ and panning in a way that it is post-fader so it picks up in Ableton.

[vsr600]

the M12 isn't an inline mixer and the line inputs can't be used at the same time as the mic inputs. So if you want to track and mix on it, while you're tracking you will have the mics plugged into the inputs and while you're mixing you have to unplug the mics and then plug the audiofire 12's outputs into the line inputs....
for monitor 1/2 out of the daw, use one of the blue fader stereo channels on the m12 (you'll need to convert from 1/4" to rca though).

[analogcabin]

The Audiofire and Ableton are 2 very wise purchases. But mixer wise..... look for a console you can flip from mic to line without re-patching if you want mix out of the box.

BUT..... If you're going to mix within Ableton (and I think you should for a lot of reasons)..... then the M12 is a kool board.

Also, to monitor what you're recording, you want to set up a mix for your headphones using a aux send (or cue send) from your mixer - before - it goes to the Audiofire. If you need to hear a click or previously recorded tracks (while overdubbing) Use Ableton's Send A Out. Create a mix in Ableton's sends and assign the Return track out to say.... Out 12 on the Audiofire. Permanently patch 12 to the M12 LINE in (maybe channel 12 as well) and mix with you other stuff.

Make sense?

[Grahambo!]

Makes sense.

Well, what kind of boards are out there that have at least 12 preamps, decent ones at that, and can switch between line and mic in the same price range?

[analogcabin]

In that price range (and even a lot higher) I see no benefit of mixing down back through the mixer.

Use Abletons 64 bit summing, automation, compressors, eq, and built in plugs and and mix in the box.

A cheap control surface may be a kool idea too. I use a Mackie MCU, but for the bucks, the Behringer BCF2000 has a lot of fans.

[Grahambo!]

cool. So M12 + Audiofire = awesome.

Would it be just as good to just keep my presonus & get a 2nd one? The reason I'm doing all this is because I thought the M12 + Audiofire 12 would be a step-up in terms of sound quality (and track count)...

[analogcabin]

I like the simple one stop 12 in solution of the Audiofire personally. Sonically it sounds great.

Presonus stuff is well respected too, but I'd think it'd be simpler with on box (clock wise & such).

[rabbitw]

as a fellow person in band who records, using a soundcraft fx16 mixer and audiofire4 (planning on upgrading to 12), i think it sounds pretty good for the money. i used to do live sound and can say from that, that soundcraft and allen & heath mixers sound way better than mackies i've used. i also have a joe meek vc6 preamp i got for cheap from a guy who was upgrading to the half-rack vc3(??) that i use a lot and if you're looking for warm and not thin, it definitely gives you that, especially on bass and guitar. i think i paid maybe $200 but i think it was well worth it to have that extra oomph when mixer preamps aren't doing it for me. anyways, just thought i'd chime in on how happy i've been with my semi-cheap setup that sounds kind of like what you're going to do.

[Grahambo!]

I see.

Now. The reason I'm getting this mixer, as you know, is to get some better preamps than what's in the PResonus and to get more channels.

How does the Spirit M12 compare to the Allen & Heath Zed 24, or any other suggestions?

Really just looking for preamps/channels. Of course, usable EQ etc is good too.

[analogcabin]

Well..... I have to say, my Sound Workshop 1208 is so great I feel guilty. But I also dig Hill Multimix boards, the Soundcraft Delta series and The M series are kool too.

If you aren't in a rush.... look for a Sound Workshop board.

[themagicmanmdt]

so, maynard, you run the same studio as me, huh?

echo A/D and the 1280b.

i can tell that we are going to be friends.

[Grahambo!]

I've been looking around for this Soundworkshop 1208 but can't seem to find any prices. Any idea how much they go for?

[analogcabin]

They're overpriced at the moment.