"old" errrr vintage stuff

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cennay
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"old" errrr vintage stuff

Post by cennay » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:49 pm

hey guys, i was wondering what you think about the vintage buisiness...


it is just hype right now? Cause i know i play mainly vintage stuff just cause i think they sound better and are way easier to mix for me. No hype for me, if i find a new piece of gear that sound the same as an vintage one i buy a new one. But it never happened...


i mean, when you can find gretsch drumsets at 4000 bucks, fender basses at 15000 bucks, i think it is a limit, i mean who can afford such a price?

so, poll: will it get higher in price, or lower in the future. The hype about it will fade? or become even more aggressive?

your opinion?

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Post by joel hamilton » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:58 pm

More people recording, no more pultecs being built = higher price.
Even when a plug-in gets really good, it drives the price of the original up because more people gain access to that piece of gear and figure out how good it is... like "wow the pultec EQ plug by URS is awesome.Pultecs are awesome!..." and there goes the price of the original...

I dont really know, but that seems to be the way stuff has gone for the last 10 years or so now. before that, you had to actually come in contct with the stuff to find out it was awesome.

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Post by cennay » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:10 pm

joel hamilton wrote:More people recording, no more pultecs being built = higher price.
Even when a plug-in gets really good, it drives the price of the original up because more people gain access to that piece of gear and figure out how good it is... like "wow the pultec EQ plug by URS is awesome.Pultecs are awesome!..." and there goes the price of the original...

I dont really know, but that seems to be the way stuff has gone for the last 10 years or so now. before that, you had to actually come in contct with the stuff to find out it was awesome.

but maybe it is just a hype thing for a lot of people. people who just follow without hearing by themselves. those guys migh as well find another cooler thing than vintage in 3 years... who knows?

I think there will still be some people who actually listen to old stuff and say it is better just for the sound of it, but there is a big bunch of kids that just wants a 70 j bass just cause it's so cool...

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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:12 pm

There's the hyperinflated instrument market, and then there is the not quite so hyperinflated recording gear market. I think, anyway. I think it's because a guitar collector can suck at playing guitars or not even play them, and yet still hoard them, whereas (I think/hope) people get recording stuff to use it. I don't think there are nonmusical or only hobby-level musical types hoarding Pultecs yet, but there are many such people hoarding guitars and stuff (and that is not to mention the Rolling Stones hoarding guitars - I saw an article a few years back about our local boutique vintage guitar dealer showing up backstage at a Rolling Stones appearance [per their request] and selling each member of the band a couple of guitars, which they will likely never play)

Maybe I am wrong.

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:39 pm

there are definetly hobbyist recorders hoarding neves. I have seen em.
Think about it, there are tons of semi-pro recording platforms out there. Most of them dont sound spectacular. So a lot of weekend warriors go to sweetwater and buy a mint in microphones. it still doesnt sound spectacular. So they get on Ebay or whatever and buy up all the old gear. It's no accident that all the beatles era gear is so pricey. The old baby boomer dudes have all the disposable income now that they are empty nesters.
now the prices on vintage fenders are just out of line. I have owned a few 70's fenders and they arent that great. I'd rather a G&L or Musicman of nearly any year than a crappy post CBS fender with dead spots and tuning problems.
Though I do like the bound neck 70's jazz bass necks, I'd rather get a new Sadowsky for that kind of price.
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Post by ??????? » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:32 pm

Whether it's "hype" or "real" probably depends on the person using it.

I imagine a lot of people seek out old gear because they hear old gear is supposed to be cool.

And then there's probably people who come into contact with some old gear and figure out that it actually does have a cool character they like.

I mean, a lot of it probably has to do with experience level.

A person who can play 3 chords on a guitar might not be able to tell a huge difference between a squier strat and a vintage '62. But someone who's a very accomplished player would be better equipped to appreciate what the vintage one has to offer.

As someone's skill becomes more refined, their tastes often become more sensitive at the same time. Not necessarily that they need better stuff, but that they are more able to bring out the essential character/personality in whatever piece of gear they happen to be using.

Because that's what it's all about really-- the vintage gear has a certain character. If someone says "it's all hype," then they're probably just not attuned to the character inherent in whatever vintage piece they're disparaging.

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Post by cennay » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:20 pm

??????? wrote:Whether it's "hype" or "real" probably depends on the person using it.

I imagine a lot of people seek out old gear because they hear old gear is supposed to be cool.

And then there's probably people who come into contact with some old gear and figure out that it actually does have a cool character they like.

I mean, a lot of it probably has to do with experience level.

A person who can play 3 chords on a guitar might not be able to tell a huge difference between a squier strat and a vintage '62. But someone who's a very accomplished player would be better equipped to appreciate what the vintage one has to offer.

As someone's skill becomes more refined, their tastes often become more sensitive at the same time. Not necessarily that they need better stuff, but that they are more able to bring out the essential character/personality in whatever piece of gear they happen to be using.

Because that's what it's all about really-- the vintage gear has a certain character. If someone says "it's all hype," then they're probably just not attuned to the character inherent in whatever vintage piece they're disparaging.

good point, but prices are not only based on what you and me think... it is about the general consensus of everyone, including people who can't play and hear...

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Post by themagicmanmdt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:58 pm

it all depends.

musical instruments - the pickups are magic. the rest is just wood. except acoustics. old acoustical instruments have a magic, a tone they've resonated too. this is why older acoustics sound better. the wood has 'resonated' in. then again, this isn't because it's from the 60's. this is just because it's been played for 50 years.

recording gear - eh. it's just about the circuits. i'd rather have a la-2a clone then a real one. everything's new and perfect - just like they were intended to be.

an older 47? there's no such thing as a NEW u47 anymore. we won't ever get the sounds back of how they used to sound way back when. tubes are gone. capsules are warping. it has this 'thing', but it's timeless, yet has an expiration date.

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Post by cennay » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:37 am

well again, i am not speaking about the quality of vintage gear... cause personnaly i am 100% addicted for what i do... i just simply prefer the sound. i have a lunchbox, but i prefer my calrec 1061, i have a gms drumset but i prefer my gretsch...

just what people think about their price and how it will be in the future.

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Post by blackdiscoball » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:03 am

Id have to think resale value adds to the vintage hype. People buy things old or slightly old and assume its going to be worth more eventually since all old things are worth more. This has created a totally seperate vintage market of old junk! Just check Teisco Del Ray guitars on ebay... go ahead, I'll wait. Some have buy it nows into the 400 and 500s. Thats stupid, I own a teisco, I love it, I'd pay 50 -100 dollars for one past that your nuts, you can expect the frets on the next to be jack up, the neck warped, the pickups howled like a siren when I first got mine (had to repot them) but I've seen them sell in worse condition for 200-300 just because they are old and people are dumb. I blame ebay. I use it all the time but it does inflate the price on many things.
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Post by Harry » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:05 am

I see stuff for sale for $15000...but are they really getting that? Or is it so someone can get $5000 for something by saying..."look here's one going for $15000"... I guess that would be the definition of hype?

But, on the other hand. Some stuff is collectable. Like Pre-cbs fender stuff.
If you know what you're looking at and have the $$ it's a good investment.
You can enjoy it for a lifetime and leave it to your kids (to sell for $15000 yen)
I love old shit...but mostly I just love non digital shit(mostly)
If I had the cash I would buy stuff that would go up in value over the years.
But I don't....so I just bought a re-issue deluxe reverb. Sounds pretty good..good enough anyway. In 20 years it might be worth 1/2 of what I paid for it(if it's still around?) I did drool over some real 65s though:) The smart money would have been on a real 65 deluxe reverb....But I barely had the stupid money for the re-issue.

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Post by RefD » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:21 am

i dunno.

the few things i've had that qualify as "vintage" i bought when they were going cheap.

examples:
- Ross Phaser Distortion (in need of a new AC cable) $7
- '72 Fender Telecaster Custom with case $350
- '50s tweed Fender Harvard $70
- Oberheim OB-8 w/MIDI $400
and so on...

now, the Ross i could see paying in the $50 range for.

the rest cost me about what i feel they were worth, really.
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Post by GREGL » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:26 am

ysyrtypy wrote: I don't think there are nonmusical or only hobby-level musical types hoarding Pultecs yet,

I know for sure there are a number of people who have no use for recording gear but are buying it up and selling on e-bay. Even old audio transformers as used in classic pieces of gear. They are amazingly knowledgeable about what has value and what that value is even though they don't have a clue otherwise about what they are hoarding and selling (this is not to say that there aren't people buying and selling who know and use the gear).

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Post by ??????? » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:27 am

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Last edited by ??????? on Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Nick Sevilla » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:03 am

It will always get higher.

There's only two reasons for this:

Demand does not diminish over time, and

Old items (notice I said old, NOT "vintage") are not made anymore. Permanently Limited supply.

I talked to my Guru about this years ago, and he laughed. First, because the wrd Vintage is overused (it is a French word to describe the provenance (another French word) of a particular bottle of wine, and as such has NOTHING to do with age, but location)

I have worked with the great old gear of yesteryear, and am happy when i see them recreated in a Plug-In. Why do I say this?

Because I used to be a tech, and having intimate knowledge of just how crappy this old gear is, I'd much rather be mixing with an emulation that does not break mid session. I get more done.

This being said, I do have ONe piece of advise for all you newbies out there who have never Seen Any Old Gear, never mind having Used it Before :

BEFORE BUYING, RENT ONE AND TRY IT.

I think a lot of the hoopla surrounding some gear will be dispelled by doing this.

I laugh out loud when I see posters talking about how great this or that Plug-In sounds... and then you ask if they've ever SEEN the original, and they did not even know there was an original to begin with. Very Un-Funny, if you ask me.

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