Patchbays - I apologize for being retarded.
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Patchbays - I apologize for being retarded.
Ok,
So I am thinking about picking up a patch bay for my home studio to help with the routing between my board and my DAW interface. My only problem is that I am obviously retarded and I CANNOT get my head around how a patchbay works and will be wired into my system!?
Please, someone explain this to me like I am a 5 year old, because this 29 year old cannot get it, no matter how much I read/research.
OvrCr <- feels completely inept!
So I am thinking about picking up a patch bay for my home studio to help with the routing between my board and my DAW interface. My only problem is that I am obviously retarded and I CANNOT get my head around how a patchbay works and will be wired into my system!?
Please, someone explain this to me like I am a 5 year old, because this 29 year old cannot get it, no matter how much I read/research.
OvrCr <- feels completely inept!
I think the basic use of a patch bay can be for four things:
1. as a way to save wear and tear on the jacks on the equipment;
2. as a way to re-locate the equipment connections, ex., so you have them in front of you, not around back of the unit;
3. organization, ex., put all the pre-amp jacks next to each other;
4. as a way of connecting different interface types more easily, ex., taking a (stereo) TRS out to a TRS bay and using appropriate cords to split it into two mono connections, or just leaving, say, an RCA output unit (like an old Realistic EQ or reverb or some home hi-fi stuff) connected to the 1/4" patch bay.
After that, their use can be more sophisticated:
1. you can break into a chain, ex., where you have a pre-amp connected in series through the bay to a compressor through the bay to your DAW channel, you can patch an EQ between something;
2. you can create a new chain via a "mult" (stands for "multiply"?), ex., where you have a pre-amp connected in series through the bay to a compressor through the bay to your DAW, you can mult from the pre-amp (at the bay) to a different compressor and feed a different (parallel) DAW channel. Or simpler, you could run a pre-amp through the bay to your DAW, and multing from the pre-amp at the bay connect through the bay to a compressor through the bay to and feed a different (parallel) DAW channel.
(I believe you can call either scenario a form of parallel compression.)
Speaking of a "mult", I think of a "Y" cable; the result is the same. In a patch bay this is often accomplished with a "parallel", or with a "half-normalled", jack set-up, where you can jack into the signal flow and not break its original ("normal") flow, but split that flow off to second destination, like a "Y cable does, by plugging into the designated jack.
There are ways to vary this at the patchbay itself. See Nuetrick's *.pdf here for a great explanation.
In no. 1, above, you would use a "normalled" set-up, I think.
For me, I use what Nuetrick calls the "isolated" set-up, as I am typically just looking for the first four basic uses.
I'm sure there's other stuff I don't know/cant think of right now, but I hope that helps some.
1. as a way to save wear and tear on the jacks on the equipment;
2. as a way to re-locate the equipment connections, ex., so you have them in front of you, not around back of the unit;
3. organization, ex., put all the pre-amp jacks next to each other;
4. as a way of connecting different interface types more easily, ex., taking a (stereo) TRS out to a TRS bay and using appropriate cords to split it into two mono connections, or just leaving, say, an RCA output unit (like an old Realistic EQ or reverb or some home hi-fi stuff) connected to the 1/4" patch bay.
After that, their use can be more sophisticated:
1. you can break into a chain, ex., where you have a pre-amp connected in series through the bay to a compressor through the bay to your DAW channel, you can patch an EQ between something;
2. you can create a new chain via a "mult" (stands for "multiply"?), ex., where you have a pre-amp connected in series through the bay to a compressor through the bay to your DAW, you can mult from the pre-amp (at the bay) to a different compressor and feed a different (parallel) DAW channel. Or simpler, you could run a pre-amp through the bay to your DAW, and multing from the pre-amp at the bay connect through the bay to a compressor through the bay to and feed a different (parallel) DAW channel.
(I believe you can call either scenario a form of parallel compression.)
Speaking of a "mult", I think of a "Y" cable; the result is the same. In a patch bay this is often accomplished with a "parallel", or with a "half-normalled", jack set-up, where you can jack into the signal flow and not break its original ("normal") flow, but split that flow off to second destination, like a "Y cable does, by plugging into the designated jack.
There are ways to vary this at the patchbay itself. See Nuetrick's *.pdf here for a great explanation.
In no. 1, above, you would use a "normalled" set-up, I think.
For me, I use what Nuetrick calls the "isolated" set-up, as I am typically just looking for the first four basic uses.
I'm sure there's other stuff I don't know/cant think of right now, but I hope that helps some.
Top row = outputs
bottom row = inputs
make a list of all yur ins and outs
decide how you want it hooked up MOST of the time
start with a half normal bay
= top row sends to bottom row with no front panel cable being used AND if you hook up a cable to a different bottom row jack, the one directly below stays connected effectively creating a y cord out of the top row thing. example = I want my main out to go to the DAT machine most of the time so the main OUT 1 and 2 is top row and DAT IN 1 and 2 (think Left and Right) is bottom row. BUT, sometimes I want to go to the Cassette recorder at the same time as the DAT, so I hook cables from the top row 1 and 2 into bottom row whatever the cassette machine is and voila: signal to both machines.
So hook up all your ouputs to the top row (in back) and all your inputs to the bottom row (in back).
Its hard to follow that in print and oh so easy to diagram on paper in person.
Can you come over?
Types:
normal = have to use patch cables in the front from top row to bottom row to get signal to go anywhere
half normal = no cables needed in the front to get signal from what's in the top to what's directly below AND the front panel jack directly below still gets signal even if top row is connected to another bottom row jack
full normal = no cables needed in the front as with half normal but signal does not pass to the jack directly below if top row is patched somewhere else.
The key is to chart out how you want to lay it out first.
Top = out
bottom = in
bottom row = inputs
make a list of all yur ins and outs
decide how you want it hooked up MOST of the time
start with a half normal bay
= top row sends to bottom row with no front panel cable being used AND if you hook up a cable to a different bottom row jack, the one directly below stays connected effectively creating a y cord out of the top row thing. example = I want my main out to go to the DAT machine most of the time so the main OUT 1 and 2 is top row and DAT IN 1 and 2 (think Left and Right) is bottom row. BUT, sometimes I want to go to the Cassette recorder at the same time as the DAT, so I hook cables from the top row 1 and 2 into bottom row whatever the cassette machine is and voila: signal to both machines.
So hook up all your ouputs to the top row (in back) and all your inputs to the bottom row (in back).
Its hard to follow that in print and oh so easy to diagram on paper in person.
Can you come over?
Types:
normal = have to use patch cables in the front from top row to bottom row to get signal to go anywhere
half normal = no cables needed in the front to get signal from what's in the top to what's directly below AND the front panel jack directly below still gets signal even if top row is connected to another bottom row jack
full normal = no cables needed in the front as with half normal but signal does not pass to the jack directly below if top row is patched somewhere else.
The key is to chart out how you want to lay it out first.
Top = out
bottom = in
"Analog smells like thrift stores. Digital smells like tiny hands from far away." - O-it-hz
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- scott macdonald
- takin' a dinner break
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I totally had the same problem, took me awhile to figure out how a patchbay works.
I like examples when I'm learning new stuff, so here's what I did:
I've got a Echo Audiofire 12. It's got 12 ins and outs. I got myself two 48-point patchbays.
So, on the top row of my first patchbay, the first 12 points are the outputs of the preamps I use to track with. They automatically are routed through the patchbay to the 12 inputs of my audiofire, which are plugged in right below. So all I gotta do when tracking is plug mics into preamps and I'm good to go. Signal is flowing right into my Audiofire.
On my second patchbay, I hooked up my modest collection of outboard gear. So now let's say I want to run the drum overheads into a compressor while tracking. I run a couple patch cables from the outputs of the preamp on the first bay, into the inputs of the compressor on the second bay. Then a couple more pacth cables bring the outputs of the compressor back to the patch points right below the first two patch cables, effectively bringing the signal back to where it came from, but now with the compressor in line. Easy!
OK, back on my first patchbay, all 12 outputs of my Audiofire take up the rest of the patchpoints, automatically outputting the signal into the 12 line-ins of my mixer. That way, I can use the mixer for monitoring while tracking, and I can easily use the patchbay to put effects inline while mixing.
If I've confused you with all this, just go back and reread dsw's post.
I totally love my patchbays and think they're the best thing ever.
Good luck!
-scott
I like examples when I'm learning new stuff, so here's what I did:
I've got a Echo Audiofire 12. It's got 12 ins and outs. I got myself two 48-point patchbays.
So, on the top row of my first patchbay, the first 12 points are the outputs of the preamps I use to track with. They automatically are routed through the patchbay to the 12 inputs of my audiofire, which are plugged in right below. So all I gotta do when tracking is plug mics into preamps and I'm good to go. Signal is flowing right into my Audiofire.
On my second patchbay, I hooked up my modest collection of outboard gear. So now let's say I want to run the drum overheads into a compressor while tracking. I run a couple patch cables from the outputs of the preamp on the first bay, into the inputs of the compressor on the second bay. Then a couple more pacth cables bring the outputs of the compressor back to the patch points right below the first two patch cables, effectively bringing the signal back to where it came from, but now with the compressor in line. Easy!
OK, back on my first patchbay, all 12 outputs of my Audiofire take up the rest of the patchpoints, automatically outputting the signal into the 12 line-ins of my mixer. That way, I can use the mixer for monitoring while tracking, and I can easily use the patchbay to put effects inline while mixing.
If I've confused you with all this, just go back and reread dsw's post.
I totally love my patchbays and think they're the best thing ever.
Good luck!
-scott
Thanks for supposedly being retarded and eliciting such clear responses....
BTW - I'm not being sarcastic!
BTW - I'm not being sarcastic!
Last edited by antilog on Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Artists to my mind are the real architects of change, and not the political legislators who implement change after the fact." William S Burroughs
I didn't read the whole post but my advice is to get on and install it. Get your cables and all and a label maker and start decidin what's going to go where and slap a label a it. My labels tell me where it came from and where it needs to go. Before I start my session there is a sheet that has all the mics listed and how they're going to be used and the cabels are labeled as well. This way if you find a mic that is meant for snare drum way over by the tuba then you'll know where the mic is meant to go where.
Of course I've had it in the ear before.....
- gregovertone
- takin' a dinner break
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ok....i would also like to be retarded.
i have an 002, few pre's, and a couple misc things.
i want a patchbay so i can patch pods/di's through various pres, etc.
but, if i connect my pre's to the bay.....
will that not eliminate mics plugging in directly?
would i need xlr->trs mic cables?
would that make some issues w/ phantom power?
this is with assuming that phantom power can't be used w/ a bay.
this must be why people use consoles for patching
i have an 002, few pre's, and a couple misc things.
i want a patchbay so i can patch pods/di's through various pres, etc.
but, if i connect my pre's to the bay.....
will that not eliminate mics plugging in directly?
would i need xlr->trs mic cables?
would that make some issues w/ phantom power?
this is with assuming that phantom power can't be used w/ a bay.
this must be why people use consoles for patching
- Brett Siler
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My musical endeavors!
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StudioMother Brain Sound Infrastructure
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StudioMother Brain Sound Infrastructure
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