using tape as a stage before PT

[trodden]

Most projects i do go directly into protools. I don't have a tape machine. However, another studio in town that i've recorded in and assisted in does and its either "record on tape, then transfer it to PT, and take to my place for OD's and mix" or just straight to PT with no tape and then take to my place for finish.

I want would like to try something different on a record i'll be working on and doing basics at this other studio. Record to tape, but have the repro head feed PT at the same time. So instead of "storing" the takes on tape and then transferring all the takes to PT, the tape is merely a part of the chain, to get the effect of using it and the basic tracks "live" on protools for further work down the line.. Once a good take is documented, just rewind the tape and move to the next song and you record over the previous song that is on the tape, skipping the whole "ok, now we got to transfer 2-3 reels of takes to PT during the last two hours of the session.

this way, you just need one rental reel of tape.. not three new rolls for 40-70 min of music (keeping multiple takes on the reel, etc)

I'm sure a ton of you are doing this, cause its just too easy of an idea.

so my question is. Do you send EVERYTHING to the tape and then to PT via repo? Or do you just send select things.. like kik, snare, toms, bass and guitar and leave... say, bass DI, OH's, room mics, etc just going straight into PT, and then shift all the stuff that hits the tape first the amount of samples its off due to it passing through the repo head first? I don't know the benefit of working that way, but i've heard of some people doing it like so... and i would never doubt their reasons, cause i know what bad ass records they make.. and I will get a chance to ask them.. eventually.

The tape machine is a 24 track studer 827, its a lovely machine. However, my tape machine skills are way way way rusty.. i've not used one in over 3 years, i'm sure it will come back to me, but i've been protooling it for majority of the time and work much faster that way. But would like to throw some tape into the sound and so does the band.

any ideas, tips and suggestions are great.

Thanks.

[rwc]

working half tape/half protools is enough without making it more complicated, IMO. I've never heard of someone doing that.

I'd take the cost of tape and instead rent top of the line converters, but I'm crazy.

[palinilap]

You may have already seen this, but a similar method is discussed here, with supplemental videos on youtube:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=57536

[KennyLusk]

Troddy, this is exactly how I've been tracking for the past few weeks - it's a phase I go through every so often. The sound is fantastic IMO, I really love my tracks and find very little need for EQ on those tracks

I work on a much smaller scale than you though, I'm tracking on 2 channels through a Pioneer T-600 (yum yum) - a 1/4" consumer deck that has really solid mic pre's and as a result have rediscovered my love for dynamic mic's [ but that's a digression from the OT]. ...so my advice on the scale you're operating on is limited. But artistically I'm with you 100% and I know you're going to get some of the best tracks you've ever gotten once you figure this out and get your signal path worked out.

It's not the sound of tape that actually gets captured on your DAW, it's the sound of the electronics of the machine, right?

[chris harris]

Do you send EVERYTHING to the tape and then to PT via repo? Or do you just send select things.. like kik, snare, toms, bass and guitar and leave... say, bass DI, OH's, room mics, etc just going straight into PT, and then shift all the stuff that hits the tape first the amount of samples its off due to it passing through the repo head first?

This is a great way to work. But, be careful splitting up stuff recorded at the same time. You're gonna be manually lining things up. If you only do it with some of your drum mics, then you risk creating some weird phase issues.

I'd say that if you're gonna print any drum tracks to tape, then print them all.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah i would just put everything on tape, half and half is asking for trouble.

i worked like this for awhile a couple years ago, and then abandoned it in favor of going straight to digital. but having recently dug up some tapes from 10 years ago and being pretty psyched about the sounds, i'm gonna give the 'thru tape' method another shot. drums on tape just makes everything so much easier.

[trodden]

Troddy, this is exactly how I've been tracking for the past few weeks - it's a phase I go through every so often. The sound is fantastic IMO, I really love my tracks and find very little need for EQ on those tracks

I work on a much smaller scale than you though, I'm tracking on 2 channels through a Pioneer T-600 (yum yum) - a 1/4" consumer deck that has really solid mic pre's and as a result have rediscovered my love for dynamic mic's [ but that's a digression from the OT]. ...so my advice on the scale you're operating on is limited. But artistically I'm with you 100% and I know you're going to get some of the best tracks you've ever gotten once you figure this out and get your signal path worked out.

It's not the sound of tape that actually gets captured on your DAW, it's the sound of the electronics of the machine, right?

Hey Kenny, i'll be printing onto the tape, so using the sound of the machine and the sound of the tape. but will be taking it off the tape right after it gets printed by the record head, so both worlds.. Tape machine electronics and tape, right into protools where i move around a lot faster.

[trodden]

Do you send EVERYTHING to the tape and then to PT via repo? Or do you just send select things.. like kik, snare, toms, bass and guitar and leave... say, bass DI, OH's, room mics, etc just going straight into PT, and then shift all the stuff that hits the tape first the amount of samples its off due to it passing through the repo head first?

This is a great way to work. But, be careful splitting up stuff recorded at the same time. You're gonna be manually lining things up. If you only do it with some of your drum mics, then you risk creating some weird phase issues.

I'd say that if you're gonna print any drum tracks to tape, then print them all.

yeah, i think i'll just send it all through the machine, onto tape, pulled right off of tape. As long as they're monitoring pre-tape machine all with be good. Might create more problems, and slowing us down more just sending "some thing" to the machine. with 24 tracks on the tape machine, not a problem at all.

I'm just wondering about punching people in.. how that's gonna work. Hopefully, the situation will be where a take is a take, for everyone.

[trodden]

yeah i would just put everything on tape, half and half is asking for trouble.

i worked like this for awhile a couple years ago, and then abandoned it in favor of going straight to digital. but having recently dug up some tapes from 10 years ago and being pretty psyched about the sounds, i'm gonna give the 'thru tape' method another shot. drums on tape just makes everything so much easier.

SCOOT IN THE M'Fk'N HOOOUUUSE!!

[trodden]

You may have already seen this, but a similar method is discussed here, with supplemental videos on youtube:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=57536

thanks!

[trodden]

after checking out that link and what people had to suggest. Think i'll be sending it all to the machine.. and either having the machine dump it to PT real time or after we get a good take, then dump. THe idea is to not have to buy multiple reels of tape. get it on there, transfer, move on...

that way, doing punchins is no problem, once i get my skills caught up to pull that off.. considering we have 2 days to set up, and track basics, hopefully that is sooner than later.

[@?,*???&?]

Always. The best way to work. Tape kicks ass.

[FSFX]

First time post-er. Please be gentle!

That is how I've been doing a record for my friends band lately. A large boat anchor of a machine Akai MG1214. Beta tape, but tape none the less. Working within the machine and tape to get the right takes, then do the transfers.
Sound source + Ribbon Mics + Good pre's + Tape = Goodge!

[djgout]

Does the A-827 have the separate output electronics for the sync and repro heads? If so I would monitor and send to cues from the sync and send to tools via the repro outs. That way you can get punchy without being weird.

[@?,*???&?]

Does the A-827 have the separate output electronics for the sync and repro heads? If so I would monitor and send to cues from the sync and send to tools via the repro outs. That way you can get punchy without being weird.

Yes, but remember your frequency is less off the sync head.