Is an increase in the number of people creating music good?

[lobstman]

But since singles existed for years before the "album" became an art form in its own right in the 1960s...there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I think the single-type experience is more of what we're seeing people be into.

I guess the point is that although the singles market has always existed in one form or another, the LP art form is declining. Even among musicians I don't see the same enthusiasm about "albums" as there was 15 years ago-

"did you hear the new (X) album?"
"yeah, I downloaded a few tracks from iTunes"

Of course, I'd be lying if I said I didn't appreciate the convenience of having my entire music library in a device smaller than a pack of Marlboroughs or the ability to download any song, any time. There are things I miss about the pre-digital era, but my dad says the same thing about the '50s- there are plenty of things that are better today, too.

[lobstman]

Anytime someone mentions how people "now" listen, or how young people now listen, that clumps me in with it. I guess I don't like being grouped into something that is totally not how I listen to, discover, or appreciate music.

Obviously there are exceptions to everything, but in general listening habits today aren't what they were 15 or 20 years ago- I know mine aren't. Having tape players in cars changed how we listened to music. So did the LP and the walkman. Technology changes society- it's not good or bad, it just is.

I wasn't trying to do the Abe Simpson "you kids today" bit...

[chris harris]

I think that some of you are creating a fictional place in the past where EVERYONE listened to albums from the beginning to end. It's not even close to true. Singles have been mentioned. Radio has been mentioned. Hell, even cassettes were available for people to make "playlists", long before iPods existed.

I see this a lot in music discussions. People who are MUSIC ENTHUSIASTS have a hard time understanding that some people aren't. It's a very romantic notion that EVERYONE in the 70s was sitting around, listening intently to the new Fleetwood Mac album with their friends. But, that's just not how it was. That's how it was for music enthusiasts. And, that's how it is today for music enthusiasts.

The argument about the new technology killing off the album experience assumes a couple of things that kind of rub me wrong:

1. It assumes that in the past, people only listened to albums all the way through because they had to. Maybe you guys should release CDs with all of the songs on one track index. Problem solved for a new world!

2. It suggests that in the present, there is something inherent to the nature of iPods and playlists that would somehow PREVENT music enthusiasts from enjoying an album from front to back.

It IS a new world. It's a world where you can listen to whatever you want, practically whenever you want. It's a world where if you want people to enjoy your album as a whole, then you need to get out there and make a great album. You can't depend on the nature of the medium to force people to listen to your artsy track 3 on side one.

[mjau]

Maybe you guys should release CDs with all of the songs on one track index.

Black Flag did this with a live album. I think I've listened to it once.

[Jay Reynolds]

Maybe you guys should release CDs with all of the songs on one track index. Problem solved for a new world!

Great idea. If you want to be lumped in with this:

[;ivlunsdystf]

Maybe you guys should release CDs with all of the songs on one track index.

Black Flag did this with a live album. I think I've listened to it once.

Also Prince's Lovesexy (2 sides, by necessity in LP/tape days); also a Richard Buckner album.

[lobstman]

Black Flag did this with a live album. I think I've listened to it once.

On CD, Husker Du's first album is two tracks- side one and side two.


Technology has changed the way we all listen to music though- musicians, enthusiasts, and the unwashed masses alike. Just like VHS and DVD changed how we watch movies. More choices, more options, portability and availability. Even in the mixtape era, you had to program the tape in advance. Now I can decide I want to hear a specific Who song while I'm driving and listen to it immediately.

It's also changed the way musicians make and present music- you don't have to program two 20 minute album sides anymore, now you can make up to an 80 minute onslaught and include all the covers, in-jokes and failed ideas that used to wind up as B-sides.

As Chris pointed out, 100 years ago everybody cooked their own meals from scratch, today I hardly ever do. Progress is good in a lot of ways, but some things get lost along the way- my grandmother cooked me dinner the other day, including peeling and mashing the potatoes. It was wonderful, but I felt a little guilty she'd done so much work- next time I'll order us a pizza.

[Jay Reynolds]

Maybe you guys should release CDs with all of the songs on one track index.

Black Flag did this with a live album. I think I've listened to it once.

Also Prince's Lovesexy (2 sides, by necessity in LP/tape days); also a Richard Buckner album.

I don't know why that first link didn't work, but I tried to post the cover art.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Maybe you guys should release CDs with all of the songs on one track index.

Black Flag did this with a live album. I think I've listened to it once.

Also Prince's Lovesexy (2 sides, by necessity in LP/tape days); also a Richard Buckner album.

I don't know why that first link didn't work, but I tried to post the cover art.

Well, it amounted to a nice end run around my lil' post.

I see that the itunes store only sells 'Lovesexy' as a 45 minute album, not individual tracks. A pity, because one of the great underrated Prince songs, "Dance On", is buried in there somewhere.

Back to another sub- sub- topic, anybody care to weigh in on video games and how they are outcompeting music recordings (are they?) for teen's attention and dollars?

[Jay Reynolds]

A pity, because one of the great underrated Prince songs, "Dance On", is buried in there somewhere.

"Get off me punk, you ain't sexy"

[;ivlunsdystf]

A pity, because one of the great underrated Prince songs, "Dance On", is buried in there somewhere.

"Get off me punk, you ain't sexy"

That song, with all those drum fills, was the reason I finally got off my jam-rock high horse and started getting acquainted with a series of musty 1980s drum machines sometime near the end of college.

EDIT: Of course that was back in the 'good old days' when we used to listen to albums. Nowadays no dumb kid would dare venture into that 45' thicket. We were smarter, and better, than the kids these days.

[JGriffin]

Back to another sub- sub- topic, anybody care to weigh in on video games and how they are outcompeting music recordings (are they?) for teen's attention and dollars?

The Beatles were bigger than Jesus, now Grand Theft Auto is bigger than the Beatles. What comes around goes around.

[cgarges]

I think some of you might have mistaken my point.

I'm certainly not saying that listening to an album all the way through is the only way to check out music. Never once did I say that and I thought I was pretty clear about not implying that. In fact, what I was saying could be applied to singles, too.

It used to be that you pretty much had to wait until you got home to listen to records. No one carried portable record players around. In fact, we have the necessity of having to carry around some giant cardboard square to thank for some of the greatest music of the last 100 years. (Check out how half the bands in England met each other in the 60s.)

Personally, I have three friends who make a big deal out of regularly listening to new stuff with undivided attention. Three. That's out of lots of people I know who listen to music or love music or play music or whatever. That number use to be WAY bigger. I still hang out with some of the people who used to fall into that category, but don't any more. Statistically, I'm seeing that fewer people do that now. I'm not sure what it means as a whole and I'm not even sure that it matters, but they ARE missing out on the experience of listening to an album with undivided attention the first time the hear it. I don't think it ruins their lives and I'm not losing any sleep over it, but that's a change that I have observed. If people aren't doing it, then by definition, they aren't having that particular experience. Period. Good or bad? I don't know. Probably neither.

Just like people who roll their eyes when anyone talks about the "good old days," I feel like rolling my eyes whenever someone acs like the past didn't happen or that it wasn't any fun or that it doesn't matter to anyone. Bullshit. I miss new Pink Floyd albums, I miss major concerts costing $12, I miss American-made Chuck Taylors, I miss Holly Farms Chicken restaurants, and I miss my grandfather's stories about HIS past. Does that negate any kind of futuristic development on the part of the human race or technology or whatever? Of course, it doesn't. In fact, I can think of several arguments for why that stuff is IMPORTANT to development.

Anyway, sorry about the rant. It's just an observation.

Hey lobstman, you should cook something for your grandmother. I'll bet she'd appreciate that.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[;ivlunsdystf]

I agree, Chris. Not bad, just different.

It is interesting (to me) to note that the album as a defining concept may have only been a big deal for 45 years or so, which is not a super-long time compared to the 40,000-odd years of hominid evolution.

[cgarges]

Just as an aside on the "album" concept: Some albums really are intended to be heard as a concept. Imagine if people decided they wanted to photoshop the old man out of American Gothic or just buy one chapter of a book.

I wonder if anyone's just bought half of "Tubular Bells."

Just something to think about from an artist presentation point of view. I'm not saying good or bad or whatever, just something to consider.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC