Room mics for small venue

[SaneMan]

I'm doing some work at a small studio/venue(like 20-25 capacity) that hosts mostly singer/songwriter stuff, but occasionally has full bands. They record their shows and would like to get a modest pair of room mics, largely to pic up the audience, but also to add some room sound and give the bands a bigger, more live sound(the room is really no bigger than the average good sized tracking room at a major studio).

So I've been looking into it and have come up with the Rode NT5's, or the Oktavamod MK012's, which are a little pricier, I'm thinking like $500 range. I've never used either of these but hear good things about em on here and other places, but I'm looking for other suggestions so I can do more research before settling on something.

[cgarges]

I'd use a pair of stock MC012s.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[otoole]

The stock MK012 from Russia really are a good bang for the buck. We A/B one against a KM184 and we could not tell the difference. It was on a harpsichord with a couple of Public Radio engineers listening in. I use the MK012 more than the 184 these days.

My question to you is do you really want to put up a pair of cardioid mics as a room pair? The MK012 comes in and omni, but I don't think that the NT5 does.

phillip

[SaneMan]

I would love the regular MC012's, as I've actually used them before and loved them, but I can't seem to find any for sale anywhere, besides a couple expired ebay auctions, which isn't my favorite place to buy mics anyway. Guess I'm not sure what the difference is between them and the MK012's, but they seem pretty reasonable.

The NT5's, like the Oktavas, use interchangeable capsules. Like the Oktavas, they usually come stock with cardioid, but you can purchase omni capsules for $89 a pop(the NT 45-0).

And for the record, I'm definitely looking for omni

[otoole]

Check out this site

http://www.oktavausa.com

They link to:
Recording Services
319-331-7122
345 N. Dubuque St
North Liberty, IA 52317
sales@recordingservices.net

We have picked four MK-012s from Recording Services. They are a small company that imports directly from Russia. Sometimes it take a while to get the mics, but I have had a good relationship with the company and the mics will not be a Guitar Center Chinese knock off microphone.

Be sure to hold out for the power coated black mics if they are not in stock!

Note: I am only recommending this company from personal experience. I am in no way affiliated with them.

phillip

[cgarges]

Guess I'm not sure what the difference is between them and the MK012's, but they seem pretty reasonable.

Just nomenclature, depending on the intended distribution. Electronically, they're the same.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[joel hamilton]

Maybe a pair of Avenson omni's?
They are really great microphones.

http://www.avensonaudio.com/sto2.php

I still use mine all the time.

[cleantone]

So I assume they are planning to install and route to something that will allow it to be mixed with the FOH to go live to two track?

Be sure you install is as close as possible to the location of the stage and stage mics. Otherwise you'll sort of need to delay the room mics to not get a "time smudge" delay issue.

I also wanted to chime in to mention that from what I understand the Oktava mics everyone is talking about in the thread have a huge varience in there sound. The better ones are picked out off of production and are sound in Russia and who knows where. The pooer sounding ones are sold at Guitar Center and can vary greatly from mic to mic.

I would steer you/them toward a fixed stereo patterm mic. Like the NT5 you brought up. I've done this same thing for venues in the past. I found the Audio Technica 825 to be a good mic for this at half of the price of the NT5.

If you do not go with a fixed stereo configuration the mics will likely get sort of screwed up. I very often notice installed house recording mics to be positioned poorly. Like and XY or ORTF that someone bumped into with a ladder of something. That doesn't help the stereo image or phase coherency much. Fixed patterns can "aim and shoot" for the most part.

I would reccomend a stereo cardiod pattern mounted pretty much in the center of the stage. It sounds like the type of room that only supports vocals and DI'ed instruments. You'll want to be away from chatty folks and close to the miced sources. I would also use a windscreen and not place it anywhere near noisey machines or flowing air. You might want to engange a low cut too.

For what it is worth I have recorded well over 500 live concerts.

[the finger genius]

Naiant XMs. You will not be disappointed.

[nomansland]

anyone have experience with the shure 141 condenser? i am looking to buy a stereo pair for live recording.

[cgarges]

I love the Shure 141, but it doesn't always excite me when used at a distance. It's hard to put a finger on it, but for some reason, I love it close on most sources and not so much farther back. It just doesn't seem to have the depth of some other mics that I like.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[SaneMan]

Just nomenclature, depending on the intended distribution. Electronically, they're the same.

Thank you, I've been wondering that for a long time.

So I assume they are planning to install and route to something that will allow it to be mixed with the FOH to go live to two track?

I also wanted to chime in to mention that from what I understand the Oktava mics everyone is talking about in the thread have a huge varience in there sound.

I would steer you/them toward a fixed stereo patterm mic. Like the NT5 you brought up. I've done this same thing for venues in the past. I found the Audio Technica 825 to be a good mic for this at half of the price of the NT5.

You'll want to be away from chatty folks and close to the miced sources. I would also use a windscreen and not place it anywhere near noisey machines or flowing air. You might want to engange a low cut too.

The room mics will go to the console in the studio the same as all the other stage mics, where the tracks are recorded individually on pro tools.

As far as the Oktava's, thanks for the heads up, I am skeptical about them, though someone earlier posted a supposedly legitimate site to purchase them.

The AT 825 looks interesting, it might not meet the clients expectations though, as he already wired it for two mics, with a cool setup attached to the ceiling, and I think he's gonna want to put his hard work to use and have two mics.

As far as the crowd, I'm fairly certain it's the kind of place where people don't talk while the musicians are playing, good call on the air flow and whatnot, I'll certainly look into it and hope theres no vents nearby.

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly take it all into consideration.

[SaneMan]

Maybe a pair of Avenson omni's?
They are really great microphones.

Thanks, I can't believe I didn't think of these, as they're on my list of gear to someday buy for myself. I think he'll love that they come stock as omni, and he wouldn't have to buy two new capsules.

Also, anyone else have an argument for cardioid instead of omni. I immediately thought omni, and told the client as such, but cleantone's recommending cardiod and he sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

[Jeff White]

Like I tell everyone these days, if you want to buy some MK012s, just buy a modded pair directly from Michael Jolly over at Oktavamod. Seriously. I've had my MK012s since 2002 and they were always nice mics. Now they are KM184 killers (and I have one that I have A/B'd against). I recently used my pair as overheads on a drum recording session through a pair of Brent Averill 312s and they sounded absolutely inspiring in every way. I converted a few folks towards JollyMods during that session.

The fact that you can interchange capsules with them is great, too. I have the cardioid and omni caps, plus the Red "RedHead" caps that are out of production. These are LDC cardioid caps for the 012 bodies. Very versatile mics. I want another pair.

Might be over kill for the crowd application, but as a general heads up for 012s, buy through Oktavamod.

Naiant... I have a pair of their mics that they made a few yrs back that are the TapeOp omnis that take phantom power. Great mics for $50/pair. Seriously.
http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html

Jeff

[trodden]

Check out this site

http://www.oktavausa.com

They link to:
Recording Services
319-331-7122
345 N. Dubuque St
North Liberty, IA 52317
sales@recordingservices.net

We have picked four MK-012s from Recording Services. They are a small company that imports directly from Russia. Sometimes it take a while to get the mics, but I have had a good relationship with the company and the mics will not be a Guitar Center Chinese knock off microphone.

Be sure to hold out for the power coated black mics if they are not in stock!

Note: I am only recommending this company from personal experience. I am in no way affiliated with them.

phillip

Just to add, my personal experience with the company is not so good. They're rude to potential customers and don't really care about helping out customers with questions. I was treated very badly by them and when i mentioned this, they didn't seem to care to have my business. I would recommend to everyone on this board to not support them.

People have had good experience with the Sound Room though. I will be using them next time I don't find what i need used or need a new oktave product.

http://oktava.com/home