Recorderman phase?

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LeedyGuy
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Post by LeedyGuy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:34 pm

drumsound wrote:
Shouldn't you listen before recording, or if working alone check and if something needs to bew flipped, do it at the mic pre and track the rest of the tunes that way?
Yeah, and I am working alone. I totally agree, and that's exactly what I'm doing: recording a few bars and then listening back. I am checking phase by flipping the phase in the computer though because I don't really know another way. Is there really a difference between flipping it at the mic pre or in the comp?

Still, if everything is measured properly in Recorderman style, what else could influence an "out of phase" sound? My room maybe? The drumset is in the corner and I have a 703 panel on the left and the right and LENRDS running up the wall behind it and the ceiling.
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mjau
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Post by mjau » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:39 pm

Reflections can definitely impart an out-of-phase type sound, though it sounds like you've got your surfaces fairly well treated.
Have you checked your mic cables? One could be wired out of phase? Does everything sound kosher once you flip polarity on one of the overheads?

LeedyGuy
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Post by LeedyGuy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:42 pm

mjau wrote:Reflections can definitely impart an out-of-phase type sound, though it sounds like you've got your surfaces fairly well treated.
Have you checked your mic cables? One could be wired out of phase? Does everything sound kosher once you flip polarity on one of the overheads?
Yeah, it sounds pretty okay once I flip the phase on one in the DAW. The drums sound like they are 30 feet away with a high pass on them without flipping the phase.

I have not checked the mic cables...why would a Monster cable be out of phase though?
Current band - www.myspace.com/nickafflittomusic
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firesine
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Post by firesine » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:04 pm

LeedyGuy wrote:
I have not checked the mic cables...why would a Monster cable be out of phase though?
Someone at the factory was hung over, or a machine malfunctioned. Its pretty easy to solder a wire to the wrong pin.
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scott macdonald
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Post by scott macdonald » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:07 pm

Crazy.

I'm working on a project that I tracked a couple years ago in Recorderman style with Russian MC012s, and when I flipped the polarity on the kick drum mics I suddenly heard a nice kick drum sound again.

The snare is all good in relation to the overheads, though.

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firesine
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Post by firesine » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:15 pm

It's also pretty crazy that you're working on a project you tracked a couple of years ago.

What's the story with that?

Sorry, way off topic, but I'm curious.

P.S. that just means your kick mic was out of phase, not the OH's.
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scott macdonald
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Post by scott macdonald » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:36 pm

Hey, what can I say, I slacked on it. It's my band, members moved away, we don't play anymore and I slacked on finishing the recording. Inexcusable! But I will conquer it this weekend! I even booked the mastering time.

I'll be posting some mixes next week for you guys to comment on. Mastering is in February.

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firesine
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Post by firesine » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:42 pm

Cool, better late than never!
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Slider
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Post by Slider » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:16 pm

If I ever run into Glyn Johns the first thing I'm going to say is "So, do you know how to do the recorderman technique?"

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Slider
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Post by Slider » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:27 pm

Now I wonder if my 012's are flipped?
Seems like when I use them under snare I always flip polarity like any other mic under there and it sounds right. Hmmm.

StarAD
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Post by StarAD » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:12 am

scott macdonald wrote:Crazy.

I'm working on a project that I tracked a couple years ago in Recorderman style with Russian MC012s, and when I flipped the polarity on the kick drum mics I suddenly heard a nice kick drum sound again.

The snare is all good in relation to the overheads, though.
MC012 are not the russian oktavas, are chinese copies.

Anyway, like someone said, allways flip phase on a track that does not sound right. Phase problems can lead you to a very thin sound and it can origin from wiring (like cables or mics), mic positioning and room reflexions.

With the original oktavas flipping phase is a good starting point but you allways have to use your ears.

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Post by signorMars » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:46 am

LeedyGuy wrote: I have not checked the mic cables...why would a Monster cable be out of phase though?
Monster Cable reallocated all its Quality Control budget to the "sue everyone using the word Monster" department.
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the finger genius
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Post by the finger genius » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:02 am

StarAD wrote:MC012 are not the russian oktavas, are chinese copies.
That's not necessarily true. Read this if you want to know more about Oktava copies.

http://oktava.tula.net/fake/

"all original microphones manufactured after 01.01. 05
are labelled "Октава МК-012" *"

"* - original MK-012 microphones produced by OAO Oktava earlier can also be labelled Oktava МC 012."
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standup
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Post by standup » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:08 am

StarAD wrote:
MC012 are not the russian oktavas, are chinese copies.
I have two Oktavas marked MC012, and they're both Russian. One I bought 10 years ago in the first wave of Guitar center Oktavas, and had it worked on by Joly. The other one I found on Craigslist locally and had been Scott Dorsey modded by the previous owner. They both have metalwork that is similar and matches photos of Russian mics, without the quirks seen in photos of Chinese mics.

It's not as simple as MK is Russian, MC is Chinese.

I have a pair of KM184s that match, but the Oktavas won't match because the two mods sound a little different and also have a big difference in output levels. But I have enough capsules that the Oktavas will find a place in many, many situations other than as a stereo pair.

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akg414
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Post by akg414 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:53 pm

Don't want to re-route this topic, but can someone PM me with some detailed instructions on the recorderman setup?
- Brad

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