Recording a singing acoustic guitarist

[mpedrummer]

Hello, imaginary internet friends!

I have a session tonight, thought I'd run something past the group-brain. The artist coming in this evening has professed being uncomfortable singing without playing his guitar, and vice versa. So, we'll be recording things all at once for performance reasons.

Now to the sound.

My initial thought is to use two figure-8 mics (KSM44s, since that's what I got!) in a bastardization of a Blumlein pair. Aim the nulls rather than the pickup to get the best isolation possible. The thinking is to try to avoid phasing issues as he moves around. I'm not sure this is the strongest technique in terms of actual sound though...and as he moves, the "best isolation" will be an issue anyway...

The band showed me a demo they did on their own, and there's definite phasing issues. They did more of a "live" setup - him standing at a mic, with another mic on the guitar. Beyond that, I have no specifics.

So, what does everyone else do?

Thanks
Tim

[kayagum]

You could also try the old bluegrass method and record 1 mic in omni, or some stereo pair in front of him (like XY or ORTF). Of course, the room needs to sound OK first.

Can he sit down while playing? It may help the mobility issue.

[cgarges]

I usually start with the exact technique you described above. Sometimes it takes a bit of playing around to figure out exactly where to put the mics if the performer plays louder than he plays or vice versa. If it's not working, I'll do something else, but that kind of Blumlein setup works well for me most of the time.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[mpedrummer]

Yeah, I considered omni, but there's going to be other stuff layered over, and I'm afraid that I'll regret not having control of the volume independently later.

Good to hear that this is a workable idea

Thanks guys
Tim

[RoyMatthews]

Though I've never done this I've often contemplated putting a flashlight or laser-pointer on a mic stand and point it at a point on the guitar (such as a knot in the wood, fret marker, or pice of tape) and say "if you come back to punch in or do a new take make sure the guitar is in this same place". It may help with moving around and keep them aware of where they're at.
As far as tracking, I haven't tried 2 bi-mics but I did use a mic set to fig-8 on the vocal and a cardioid on the guitar. It sounded good. I kinda feel that the guitar has a bigger area that you need to capture to get the best sound on it. If that makes sense.
Another time, I've used a dynamic on the guitar and that also helped.

[Mystic Steamship Co.]

last time I did this I had the singer get right up on an SM7b and moved around the acoustic mic (KM84) until it sounded right with the vocal. Finding that spot was pretty hard. The recordings sound alright but next time I think I will try something different. Have any of you ever tried do a MS setup? It might sound cool a few feet away with the mics level with the singers mouth but tilted down at the guitar a bit...of course this is pure speculation until I actually try it.

[firesine]

I've tried an M-S pair in this situation but it was tough for the performer to sing loud enough and play quiet enough to balance it out. The vocal was echo-y, no gobos, while the guitar sounded great. So, i guess this depends on the player and the room. I think it could sound great in the right situation.

You might also consider doing an ORTF-esque pair turned vertically so one is pointed at the vocalist and one at the guitar.

[oldguitars]

your figure 8 approach is the way to go.

[???????]

[lyle76]

another vote for midside. i record like this all the time - requires a little positioning based on performer dynamics, but the results are nice.

[Nick Sevilla]

Two hypercardioid mics.

Point one down at the guitar, and one up at the mouth.

So they have their null points pointing at the opposite instrument.

Mix in Mono.

Put a room mic in also, an Omni, to get a more cohesive ambience sound in there as well, which the hypers will not capture well enough by themselves.

Then, you can control a balance between the mics to get what you need.

Cheers

[rwc]

Honestly, try just one mic.

I got to touch a km84 twice. It was great, with a singing acoustic guitarist.

Why complicate something that can be so simple?

I did this with an AT4050 as well.

This is great if everyone is playing live, and all leaking a bit anyway, but kind of sucks when you're going for isolation on everything. Then again, IMO, everything sounds kinda boring when you go for isolation on everything...

[Diplomat]

Most recent session I did was just female vox and acc gtr. I put an NTK out about a foot in front of the vocalist after adjusting to get the right blend. I put a little bump in the lower mids to add some meat to the guitar.

Would have loved to have been at the old big band sessions when they had 1 mic and put the quiet guys up the front and the loud ones down the back!

0.02c

Regards,
Andrew

[VelvetoneStudios]

the problem I tend to run into most is this situation is that MANY artists that wish to record this way tend to REALLY lean into thier guitars more than their vocals. this is a problematic balance issue that cannot be fixed "in the mix". Often vocals get buried in more "Passionate" passages. If your client has good balancing skills, one LDC or ribbon in a good spot is the way to go IMHO. If there are balance issues, the addition of a SDC and some fancy fade work can help, if the main mic is focused for maximum vocal capture. Sometimes a D.I.'d pickup can be subtly used as well. In extreme cases involving a player with poor self balancing technique, I have even resorted to a horizontal Gobo between the vocal mic and the guitar mic(s). Almost invariably a player with poor balance skills will lead to a degree of comb fltering and/or other phase issues. The engineers challenge is to minimise this of course! On the other hand, a player with good balancing skills opens up several options to capture excellent performances. I prefer a single mic placed well, or a MS setup to catch a more "3D" sound. A Figure 8 placed well with one side facing the vocalist and the other toward the guitar can also yeild very natural takes with no phase issues. Of course a lot depends on the arrangement. If the singer/guitarist is the main feature of the song, a bit more level and bottom from the guitar fills out the track. If there are drums/loops, bass, other guitar parts, or other instruments involved, I personally prefer a good bit less level and low end from the acoustic. This tends, to my ears, to leave room sonically to get the vocals up where they need to be. I LOVE the balance on the Rick Rubin produced American Recordings releases of the legendary Johhny Cash. Both the solo acoustic tunes and the more lush arrangements are something I personally like to reference. So basically, the player, arrangement, and room tend to dictate which of the setups mentioned in my post and the others on this thread will give you the sound you want on tape (or hard drive!) Oh, one last thing regarding balance. I keep many different picks and guage strings on hand to quiet or bolster the guitar level. This is one of the tougher tasks an engineer faces, especially if there is other instrumentation going on. Good Luck, and don't be afraid to spend time getting the balance and sonics right, as this is a true nigtmare to try to fix later!!

[roscoenyc]

One thing to try is to have the singer/guitarist stand up rather than sit down.
When you are sitting down singing and playing a lot of people tend to hunch over the guitar.

When the singer guitarist stands the sources (voice and guitar) can be physically further apart and it can sometimes help a lot.