recording darbuka (goblet drum)

[Babaluma]

i'll soon be recording my friend playing darbuka for inclusion on a professional release (ambient/dub). i've never recorded drums or percussion before, as my own music is mostly instrumental electronic stuff, or folk acoustic guitar/vocal stuff i record for other people.

these are what we have to work with:

decent sounding room
neve preamp (not sure which one he has), or we can go with the pres in my mackie (i think i know which one we are going to choose)
mxl v69me large diaphragm tube condenser
sm57
akg c1000s
chandler germanium compressor x 2

all the mics are cardioid. i'm thinking of tracking without the compressors and then maybe adding some for flavour if needed later.

basically, which mic might be the best to use (i have two inputs on the soundcard so could record two mics at once), and any hints on positioning?

how about the c1000s or sm57 up close, and the v69 for ambient/room sound?

thanks!

[cutsnake]

I did a bit of darbuka recording last year, and the player insisted on getting the bass thump that comes out of the open end.

So you might consider micing both ends of the drum rather than trying for a room sound. Depends on the context, YMMV.

John

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Darbuka is a really tricky one to record. I'd mic both ends and put up a room mic. The room mic should be the focus of your attention. Use your LCD here. If the room sounds good you'll get 80% of your sound out of the room mic. I'd put the c1000 on the top hole (he one that faces up) to get some of the slap and articulation. I'd put the 57 on the other hole (the one facing out) to get the bass end. This thing kicks out a huge amount of low end so a 421 or M88 or other bass friendly mic would be better but a 57 will do just fine in a pinch. Put a compressor on the 57 to grab any spikes and even out the bass level.

I also found that distortion can help seat the darbuka in a mix. It sounds crazy but it works. The last time I mixed a darbuka was for a celtic folk record and I ended up using the Massey fuzz box plug-in on it.

[DrummerMan]

Darbuka is a really tricky one to record. I'd mic both ends and put up a room mic. The room mic should be the focus of your attention. Use your LCD here. If the room sounds good you'll get 80% of your sound out of the room mic. I'd put the c1000 on the top hole (he one that faces up) to get some of the slap and articulation. I'd put the 57 on the other hole (the one facing out) to get the bass end. This thing kicks out a huge amount of low end so a 421 or M88 or other bass friendly mic would be better but a 57 will do just fine in a pinch. Put a compressor on the 57 to grab any spikes and even out the bass level.

I also found that distortion can help seat the darbuka in a mix. It sounds crazy but it works. The last time I mixed a darbuka was for a celtic folk record and I ended up using the Massey fuzz box plug-in on it.

+1 all over this.


I've recorded a good amount of dumbek, very similar to darbouka in it's function and sound. Often times, I'll have an SDC 3-4' in front of the batter head (dumbek's usually played on it's side, that's why it's "in front" and not "over", like it probably would be on darbouka, though don't hold me to that). I try to put the SDC in a spot where it can capture a nice balance of attack and room ambience. Then I stick either and LDC or Sennheiser 421 pretty close to the hole in the back to get the thump. 57 should work fine too, though.


You can always stick the compressor on later, but I usually just track with one, especially on the attack head side. The transient spikes on this instrument tend to be crazily dynamic. A lot depends on the player, of course (the really good ones don't really need much dynamic control, 'cause they've got it all in their fingers/hands) but a good dose of compression and, yes, distortion can really do nice things to the sound for the majority of players.

[Brett Siler]

Goblet drum!!!!

[ubertar]

I use doumbek a lot on my stuff, and I've recorded it a bunch of different ways, usually with a mic on the head (varies) and another on the open end (re20 or d12 or maybe even an ev 664). The best sound I've got on it from a single mic was with a ceramic measurement mic, on a flexible gooseneck, taped inside with the mic capsule a couple inches from the inside of the drum head. Ceramic mics can take a ton of SPL, and this is a measurement mic, so it's got broad range and flat response, and it's just got a certain sound to it that works really well for doumbek. In that position, it gets the best of the doooom and the tek.

[Babaluma]

thanks for all the fantastic suggestions. we are going to have the first recording session tomorrow so i'll report back then!

thanks again,

gregg

[KevinOhr]

I got some great results with a TLM103 on the skin about 16" away with an SM7b close to the opening (with the eq switches flat).

[Babaluma]

well, the neve didn't show, an we couldn't use my home studio as my family are all sick with flu, so we ended up using my friend's place, crappy mic pre with the v69me about a meter away from the drum, above and pointing towards the top of the drum at about 45 degree angle. the sound we got was good, so next friday we're going to try it with better equipment and more mics at my place! will report back again...

[turtlejon1]

being both a professional doumbek / darbouka / egyptian tabla player and a semi professional recording engineer, i would concur with the consensus here and add that this is an especially important case where mic placement is very important. it's way too easy to move an inch or 2 while playing and change the positioning. the focus out the bottom can be a narrow cone. also phase problems from floor reflections effect the thump quite a bit. clip on drum mics, while sometimes a compromise in tone, offer at least consistent positioning, which can be relevant later... they also tend to minimize room tone. while a good room with some real sound is sometimes needed, the attack of the drum is weakened by the early reflections and i rarely use room mics for these.
indian tabla is a whole different beast, or pair of beasts, than the egyptian tabla, which is basically the same as doumbek or darbuka. most hourglass shaped drums with a hole on the bootom (i.e. djembe, bugadabu, etc.) produce dramatically different sounds at both ends.
****also try reversing the phase of one of the mics***
i like d112 and 421 at the bottom / back
nt5, sm57, also work on both ends.
most ldc's should be fine at the top, really.
akg c418 is my clip mic of choice. i usually put a popsicle stick in the gap in the rim to clip to. for live stuff where i might be moving this works well too, and has really low bleed.
the c1000's are probably ok at either end really.
honestly the mic placement, the particulars of the instrument and the player's subtlety (NOT their power, OR their speed) will make a successful recording. i have used tons of different mics, at most price levels (w/in reason)
maybe systematically try each combo and take notes.
most percussionists seem to respond well to mood enhancements....
the absolute single most effective budget way to improve any recording is to tune the drums. most drummers think their instrument sounds fine because the tuning changes so slowly they didn't even notice, and now they are just used to that sound. hair dryers work well for natural skins, if you don't have a bonfire handy.
rock on!!

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I just reread this thread and realize my earlier advice was actually for a different drum altogether! I was thinking of the indian drum that's made from clay and has no heads. It kind of looks like a clay hot water bottle with a hole at one end and another in the middle. What was that called? Can't remember.
Anyway, good advice here. Carry on.

[turtlejon1]

from india there's the ghatam, and there's the udu, which is a lot more popular, right now, with some LP models etc. a very interesting instrument.i think the udu is african. some way way low fundamental tones that made mixing really tough, like 60hz, half the systems we played back on couldn't really reproduce this particular instrument very well at all. but yeah, like a naiant in the neck hole is a good start for udu.

[oldguitars]

Also, don't forget that if the player has white guy dreadlocks, you also have to mic those too. Most of the "vibe" actually comes from there...

[A.David.MacKinnon]

and there's the udu,

That's what I was thinking of. One of the toughest things I've ever tried to record. Crazy low end.

[turtlejon1]

Also, don't forget that if the player has white guy dreadlocks, you also have to mic those too. Most of the "vibe" actually comes from there...

yeah, but the good ones can channel that energy to their fingertips and project it at will, so i'd be careful