breathy, whispery vocals over LOUD guitars, how?

these_go211 · Post by **these_go211** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:58 am

i'm really into shoegaze stuff and am trying to write and record stuff in that vein. i know that volumes can be (or already have been) written about MBV 'loveless.' i believe that technique was a TON of vocal tracks. but i'm also referencing bands like earlimart, jesus and mary chain, and black rebel motorcycle club. how do they do this sort of whispery vocals over a guitar onslaught? i'd imagine massive compression on the vocals would help. ? do you think all those aforementioned bands also have a lot of vocal tracks too? thanks for any help!

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:39 am

Big JAMC/BRMC fan here (listened to Stoned and Dethroned last night, for instance ...).

What I hear:

My thought is they use heavy compression, and perhaps heavier limiting, on the vocals. Sometimes there appear to be overdubs and stacking, but not really a lot.

I suspect they adjust the EQ quite a bit, both pass filters and using a parametric.

A different reverb than the rest of the mix, to make the vocal stand out ...

That is where I'd start, anywhat.

Love to hear some of your stuff, also.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:45 am

Kevin Shields has also commented that though the MBV vocals sound whispy and subdued, they actually sing quite loud. I'd work on that first. Live sound engineers will appreciate it.

darjama · Post by **darjama** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:49 am

yeah, seeing JAMC live I never got the impression they were singing that quietly.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:00 am

For live trying to whisper over really loud stuff is kinda a nightmare.

For studio not too hard, just use a mix of heavy compression or limiting (or parralle compression), a little EQ, maybe some reverb or delay (if your talking MBV then definitely reverb and delay) and turning the fader up, you should be good to go.

stitch · Post by **stitch** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:16 am

you can always sidechain the git comp key'd off the vocals just a hair and very fast.
everytime the vocal hits, the git ducks a bit.

That and some creative eqing in the whole of the mids (dist gits low mids/ vocs high mids). with acoustic gits favoring spaces more towards vocal side of mids.

its the GUITARS that are heavily stacked in the shoegaze tho, not really vocals...

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:43 am

subatomic pieces wrote:Kevin Shields has also commented that though the MBV vocals sound whispy and subdued, they actually sing quite loud.

really? i've heard so many stories of them reducing monitor engineers to tears on tour because they'd always be wanting more vox in the monitors, but meanwhile they're barely opening their mouths to sing and the guitars are all at 159db the whole time.

anyway to the OP, i agree that heavy compression is your friend. heavy reverb, not so much, as i think it would tend to just wash the vox out amidst the guitars, (and might be kinda weird on whispery stuff anyway) but i do find that a short ambience-style verb on vox can really help them sit/be heard in a dense mix.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:37 pm

Find the essential EQ point of the vocal and Cut it on everything else.

Serial and possible parallel compression, and lots of it!

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:15 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: i've heard so many stories of them reducing monitor engineers to tears on tour because they'd always be wanting more vox in the monitors, but meanwhile they're barely opening their mouths to sing and the guitars are all at 159db the whole time.

Gawd, I hate working with guys like that. I play with one guy who sings really quietly and sometimes backs up 3-4 feet away from the mic, and needs more monitor than anyone I've ever heard. Ring city.

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:38 pm

dwlb wrote:
MoreSpaceEcho wrote: i've heard so many stories of them reducing monitor engineers to tears on tour because they'd always be wanting more vox in the monitors, but meanwhile they're barely opening their mouths to sing and the guitars are all at 159db the whole time.
Gawd, I hate working with guys like that. I play with one guy who sings really quietly and sometimes backs up 3-4 feet away from the mic, and needs more monitor than anyone I've ever heard. Ring city.

That's my drummer. I keep telling him that if he's more than a foot away from the mic it stops being a vocal mic and becomes an overhead.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:45 pm

junkshop wrote:
dwlb wrote:Gawd, I hate working with guys like that. I play with one guy who sings really quietly and sometimes backs up 3-4 feet away from the mic, and needs more monitor than anyone I've ever heard. Ring city.
That's my drummer. I keep telling him that if he's more than a foot away from the mic it stops being a vocal mic and becomes an overhead.

Awesome.

That leads me to a Beatles story: I read an interview with the guy who did sound for their Candlestick Park show, the last stadium show they played, and he said that they set up a big boom stand for Ringo's vocals, with the mic on one end and a big heavy counterweight at the other, and he sat down behind the kit at the start of the show, swung the boom around and sang all of his vocals into the counterweight.

these_go211 · Post by **these_go211** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:57 pm

great comments! thanks a lot. and to clarify, this is just for studio stuff. i'm a bedroom musician, not a in a band, don't do live gigs.

signorMars · Post by **signorMars** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:26 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:Kevin Shields has also commented that though the MBV vocals sound whispy and subdued, they actually sing quite loud. I'd work on that first. Live sound engineers will appreciate it.

i've seen several quotes from him implying that whatever people think MBV did, they did the opposite. he says most of loveless only had like 2 or 3 guitars, it's his handiness with a tremolo bar on a jaguar that makes it sound like 6 billion guitars.

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:10 pm

dwlb wrote:
MoreSpaceEcho wrote: i've heard so many stories of them reducing monitor engineers to tears on tour because they'd always be wanting more vox in the monitors, but meanwhile they're barely opening their mouths to sing and the guitars are all at 159db the whole time.
Gawd, I hate working with guys like that. I play with one guy who sings really quietly and sometimes backs up 3-4 feet away from the mic, and needs more monitor than anyone I've ever heard. Ring city.

In-Ear-Monitors... they're your friend...

Grapejuice · Post by **Grapejuice** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:35 pm

My first instinct would be to record with more headroom for the vocals. Try and get your guitars sounding like they're destroying the universe at several db's fewer than 0dBvu. Then record your quiet vocals at their ideal gain and turn them up in the mix so that they're suitably audible.

Obviously you don't have the studio toys they had for Loveless but listening to this record it's pretty clear that this is how the vox and guitars have been related to one another in the recording process. Of course all of the tips above about compression, EQ etc are all helpful as well, but in recording you have far more control over relative levels then live and you should use this to your advantage.

Having seen MBV live twice in London last summer I can almost guarantee that this is how they had to do things in the studio vs. their actual relative levels produced by the instruments and vox. The vocals were almost totally inaudible throughout the entire show despite having one of the nicest sounding and loudest modern PA systems I've ever heard in a very well designed-for-live-sound venue.

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breathy, whispery vocals over LOUD guitars, how?

breathy, whispery vocals over LOUD guitars, how?

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