Cascade Fathead on kick? Precautions?

[giuseppe_fl]

I'm new to tracking live drums. Yet that is what I am trying to do.

The set-up is raw: one Rode NT2A, one RE15, a Cascade Fathead II and a some SM57s and 58s.

Lacking a D112 I've been micing the kick with the RE15.

Now I want to try the RE15 on the snare but I'm in no hurry to put a 57 on the kick. I thought I'd try the Cascade on the kick. But I've seen alot on the TOMB about the fragility of the ribbon.

Are any precautions necessary when using the Fathead on kick or other drums? Is Fathead on kick a bad idea, period? Any other suggestions -- besides room mic -- for incorporating a single ribbon mic into this kind of setup? Thanks.

[mjau]

Probably not a bad idea to use a pop filter on it, and even with one, I'd be careful about putting it right in front of the hole in the resonant head.

Sweet avatar.

[giuseppe_fl]

Probably not a bad idea to use a pop filter on it, and even with one, I'd be careful about putting it right in front of the hole in the resonant head.

Thanks. So, back a ways from the drum head? Or just off to the side, away from the hole?

Sweet avatar.

Our avatars are very similar.

[Mane1234]

Does the kick even have a resonant head? If so then as mentioned be careful about the ribbon taking any air blasts. Pop filter would be a good idea for sure. I've used my Fatheads for overheads so if your room sounds good then you may like them above the kit or maybe out in front. The D112 isn't the only kick mic game in town. The Audix D6 and the Sennheiser 602 are great kick mics. When you say "live drums" do you mean you're running sound at a club?

[giuseppe_fl]

I've used my Fatheads for overheads so if your room sounds good then you may like them above the kit or maybe out in front.

That's the thing; we're in a square basement room with plenty of metal airducts overhead. It's not the most impressive room from an acoustic standpoint. That's why I wasn't anxious to use the Fathead as an overhead.

The D112 isn't the only kick mic game in town. The Audix D6 and the Sennheiser 602 are great kick mics.

I'm actually a fan of the D112, but we don't have one yet. For the time being we're just working with what we've got and trying things out.

When you say "live drums" do you mean you're running sound at a club?

I just mean to say a drum kit as opposed to electronic drums.

[the finger genius]

As for your original question, you can use a ribbon on kick, but you do need to be careful about how you go about it. Use the Search function to find several threads on how do do this with minimum danger.

Also, don't be afraid to at least try a 57 on kick. I know it's not the sexy pick, but depending on what kinds of sounds you looking for, you can definitely get something useful out of a 57.

[Aquaman]

Try angling the fathead down a bit when it's in front of the kick, so the air blast "sweeps" across the ribbon instead of blowing directly on it full-face. And definitely use a pop filter.

Some higher-end ribbons (royer) come with a corrugated ribbon that is much more durable, but the fatheads do not.

You can put your hand where the mic is going to go while someone is playing the kick to see how much of an air puff there is in your desired location.

[dsw]

Also, don't be afraid to at least try a 57 on kick. I know it's not the sexy pick, but depending on what kinds of sounds you looking for, you can definitely get something useful out of a 57.

yeah especially if you like your kick drum to sound like it came from sears and roebuck christmas toy catalog

sorry, but I think a 57 on kick is a very bad idea

57's 3db down point is up around 300 hz
by 50 hz its down by 10 db

they are just not designed to pick up low sounds

[dsw]

the danger with ribbon mics is stretching the diaphragm which can be caused by fast moving air

you don't blow on a ribbon mic ever
some say to cover it with a sock or some such when walking across the room with one

if the ribbon gets stretched the mic sounds bad and replacing the ribbon will cost you a fair amount of dough

the hole in a kick drum front head lets a LOT of air out in a big rush of air that could easily stretch a ribbon.

if you can feel air moving with your hand in front of the mic, you are in danger of hurting a ribbon mic. if not, and its not distorting, you should be fine.

[Artifex]

Also, don't be afraid to at least try a 57 on kick. I know it's not the sexy pick, but depending on what kinds of sounds you looking for, you can definitely get something useful out of a 57.

yeah especially if you like your kick drum to sound like it came from sears and roebuck christmas toy catalog

sorry, but I think a 57 on kick is a very bad idea

57's 3db down point is up around 300 hz
by 50 hz its down by 10 db

they are just not designed to pick up low sounds

On the other hand, you can get most of the low end you need for a kick from the OH and room mics, and use the kick mic to emphasize the attack of the drum. For this a 57 has done the trick at times.

More on topic, I've also used a fathead on kick with good results, though it's always been on a non-ported resonant head.

Pretty tasty as a mono OH too.

[chris harris]

I think a 57 in close to the batter head, combined with the fathead as a "room" mic about 4 - 6 ft. in front of the bass drum would result in a pretty kickass bass drum sound.

[Gentleman Jim]

It's not my go-to, but I've had success using a 57 on kick for metal/hardcore stuff live. The first time I was using a 112 and having a hard time managing the kick/bass relationship, so I put the 57 in as a second mic. Ended up not even using the 112. Since then I've done it a couple of times without the Earth spinning out of orbit or the sea levels rising.

[SonicReducer]

I was recently assisting a session where we used a fathead as an outside mic, and at one point it started distorting, and we thought we messed up the ribbon, so i opened it up and it turns out the positive (red) lead had disconnected from the xlr jack. I dont know if this is coincidence or not, since after opening it up I saw that it is not the most solidly made mic, but im sure it had something to do with all the vibration from the kick.

In the end we put up a 414ULS and were happier with that.

[giuseppe_fl]

Thanks for all this. In the end today the RE15 wound up back on the kick and the Cascade served as an overhead. I did the hand test in front of the Cascade and there was some tough air coming at it, and I chickened out. But the end results sounded reasonable.

I will try it again on the kick with its face angled down, away from the air blast.

[johnnydove]

I will try it again on the kick with its face angled down, away from the air blast.

make sure not to forget the pop filter!