Mastering Question

[UnlikeKurt]

I got a reference disc the other day and after listening through I was curious to a/b it to my final mixes. I loaded one of the final mix tracks into pro tools along with the mastered version. I then pushed the fader a bit on the un-mastered version just to get a sense of balance between the two and a/b'd my way through the track. It was interesting.
Some things I noticed and were sort of wondering about:
1. I could see some subtle changes here and there in the spectragram; but a complete LP around 15K, as if there was no longer any content above 15K. Being sort of unfamiliar with the mastering process / techniques, etc. I'm sort of curious to why this would be?
2. The unmastered track had max peaks of around -6db. The mastered version was around -3.7db. The waveform looks good, lots of dynamics preserved and the compression applied in mastering was very nice. I'm just wondering why all of that headroom would have been unused? Could it be that the engineer didn't need all of that and I could/should have sent it say with only 3db or so of headroom?

Any ideas / feedback would be appreciated
Thanks

[chris harris]

1. I could see some subtle changes here and there in the spectragram; but a complete LP around 15K, as if there was no longer any content above 15K. Being sort of unfamiliar with the mastering process / techniques, etc. I'm sort of curious to why this would be?

that's weird. no info above 15k?!?!

Does it sound good?

2. The unmastered track had max peaks of around -6db. The mastered version was around -3.7db. The waveform looks good, lots of dynamics preserved and the compression applied in mastering was very nice. I'm just wondering why all of that headroom would have been unused? Could it be that the engineer didn't need all of that and I could/should have sent it say with only 3db or so of headroom?

again, how does it sound? If it sounds great to you, then I'd keep sending the mixes the same way. I doubt that the ME couldn't get your peaks higher. They probably (hopefully) just went with what sounded best.

That's pretty interesting, though... what kind of music is it? did you get the kind of levels you expected from mastering?

[cgarges]

If it sounds good, I wouldn't worry about it at all. You could probably call the mastering engineer and ask what he did and /or if there were any specific problems he had to address. I do this all the time and if you develop a relationship with a mastering engineer you like, you can start figuring out if there are certain things he finds that he has to do frequently, like low-passing the mixes.

I had a really good working relationship with one mastering engineer (who retired recently) for several years before I found out anything about what type of gear he used. I just knew that stuff always came back sounding better, he was easy to deal with, he was very helpful in doing revisions, he was quick, and his rate was terrific. Those were the things I cared about. It' s pretty much still that way at base level for me. But if I hear something that I like or dislike, I usually call the ME and just ask about it. I don't think I've ever once compared a mastered mix to an unmastered mix by looking at it.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[nordberg]

was it possibly an mp3??? they chop off everything over 15 or 16.

[UnlikeKurt]

Chris - thanks for the info; I was planning on calling him up or sending an email this week. I wasn't really doing a "visual" comparison of the mixes. I was a/b'ing them because I didn't "notice" much of a change. It just so happens that I have the spectragram as a default on my master fader so I happened to make the observations.

Nordberg: I'm looking into this because this could very well be the case which would also pretty much possibly explain everything I'm wondering about. I didn't get the reference directly, I got it from the band. They very well could have used some program like itunes to burn the cd and inadvertently created mp3s and burned from them; I highly doubt it was a direct copy now that I think about it. Thanks for the idea.

[cgarges]

You should probably call the mastering guy and just ask him to send you a disc. I think he'd be happy to do it for you. That way, you know for sure what came out of his place.

If it turns out that the band sent you either a bad burn or an MP3 or something, be sure that they know what to send to manufacturing (assuming they're getting it pressed) or better yet, have the ME send the manufacturing copy to the plant.

It's weird how easily things can get messed-up these days. I just got a record back from pressing that sounded more limited than the master. I actually took a copy of the pressing up to the mastering studio and we did some comparisons. The difference was pretty instantly noticeable and there were definitely some differences doing a bit-by-bit comparison. Fortunately, for this particular project, it sounded kind of cool, but I would have been pissed off if it had been a jazz record or something.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[UnlikeKurt]

Eek. Were you able to figure out what happened at the plant?

You're absolutely right on this one Chris. I'd hate to make a judgment call on someone's work without knowing for sure that it is in fact his work that I'm listening to.
I called one of the people in the band to find out what he gave me. I'll make a direct copy of the reference disc. Fortunately I know them pretty well so I'll probably just swing by and grab the reference disc itself.

[chris harris]

Fortunately, for this particular project, it sounded kind of cool, but I would have been pissed off if it had been a jazz record or something.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

I would've been pissed off either way. Especially if I was the ME.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

both the low pass at 15 and the peaking at -3.7 are weird. if your mixes were crazy bright and painful then of course the high end would need some attention, but a low pass at 15k seems awfully drastic.

the only reason i can think to have the track peak at -3.7 is if it needed to be that low to fit with the other tracks on the record. did you check out any other tracks to see if they peaked close to zero?

it sounds to me like Bandmember X burnt the disc after ripping it into itunes, where it got converted to mp3 and replay gained down almost 4db.

[UnlikeKurt]

Yup, that seems to be the consensus to what probably happened. It would explain everything.

[cgarges]

Eek. Were you able to figure out what happened at the plant?

Still working on that.

the only reason i can think to have the track peak at -3.7 is if it needed to be that low to fit with the other tracks on the record. did you check out any other tracks to see if they peaked close to zero?

It's also not uncommon for mastering houses to print mixes below zero if they know it's going out for broadcast. If the RMS is relatively consistent and the peak level is below zero, it still gives a dense and loud sound at broadcast without maxing out the broadcast equipment. I've seen it happen more than once and one time, it happened on something I was hired to mix (primarily for broadcast) from a MAJOR mastering house. It sounded great, too.

I don't know if this was the case here or not.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[UnlikeKurt]

Got the reference disc popped it in the CD player. Sounds solid, all the concerns went right out the window. Now I just have to teach someone how to copy a cd without ripping it first!

[@?,*???&?]

was it possibly an mp3??? they chop off everything over 15 or 16.

Nope. This can't be made as a general statement.

[Aquaman]

Just thought it was worth reinforcing the idea that not every song on an album is going to kiss the ceiling.

An album should flow with the correct "weight" from song to song, not ring the bell every time. Usually my final step in preparing a master CD is to listen to the transitions, from about 30 seconds back, from song to song to make sure each one hands off to the next one smoothly.

[imdrecordings]

Got the reference disc popped it in the CD player. Sounds solid, all the concerns went right out the window. Now I just have to teach someone how to copy a cd without ripping it first!

Mistake number 1... Letting the band speak or deal with the ME.
I've had the same thing happen to me. The "import to iTunes thingy". I wont ever let the band deal with the ME or listen to what ever they burn for me. The last time I did, it caused 2 revisions and came back sounding weird, to me. I will always regret not getting involved with the ME on that project.
Props to you and all for figuring that out and double checking the master against the mixes.

Cheers!