artist / enginner flat rate collaboration

[Dave Stanley]

Hey gang, just wondering something. Do any of you that do flat rates for projects involve the client/artist when deciding on a price? I usually do it this way, but I never really ask what the budget is.

I'm wondering for a next project I need to quote, that maybe I should ask what their budget is, then I would quote them the "expectations" fro the money they can spend.

2 projects for me recently, is a full length for a flat rate, where I'm barely making minimum wage (but enjoying the project and client very much) and another quick flat rate demo/EP with a really quick mix where I made 25 bucks an hour! Whoohoo! The client was happy with my work on this really rush job and I made my highest hourly money.

So my question is, does anyone take a budget and then adjust their working methods around that flat rate?

Ie, low budget = live tracking with minimal overdubs
Big budget = capture drums, lots of overdubs and edits, extra mix time, etc

As I scratch my head on this, I'm thinking I need to start quoting hourly rates.
But would rather do flat rates, keeping it casual, mixing time off the clock for my convenience sake.

Sory for the ramble, any thoughts?
Thanks so much!

[charlievela]

I just recently went from doing an hourly/project pricing structure to just hourly. I found that if you quote a fair price for a project a lot of bands will experience sticker shock. Psychologically, (and I'm sure there's research to back this up) if you pay it a little bit at a time it feels like it's less money you're spending, even if the amount is the same.

Not only that but an hourly rate effectively protects against "The Endless Mix" where a constant stream of revisions turn a once fun project that you were happy to do for a little less money into a mundane chore that makes you resent every moment. Oh the humanity!

[Jay Reynolds]

Psychologically, (and I'm sure there's research to back this up) if you pay it a little bit at a time it feels like it's less money you're spending, even if the amount is the same.

That's why car dealerships will post a payment-per-month on their product.

[cgarges]

So my question is, does anyone take a budget and then adjust their working methods around that flat rate?

I never do flat rates, except for the occasional live recording gig, but I do always ask what the budget is and then explain what that will get them in terms of hours or days or whatever. If they decide to go over or under budget, that's up to them, but if I know what the goal is, it's much easier for me to do efficient work at the beginning of the project.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Nick Sevilla]

Hey gang, just wondering something. Do any of you that do flat rates for projects involve the client/artist when deciding on a price? I usually do it this way, but I never really ask what the budget is.

I'm wondering for a next project I need to quote, that maybe I should ask what their budget is, then I would quote them the "expectations" fro the money they can spend.

2 projects for me recently, is a full length for a flat rate, where I'm barely making minimum wage (but enjoying the project and client very much) and another quick flat rate demo/EP with a really quick mix where I made 25 bucks an hour! Whoohoo! The client was happy with my work on this really rush job and I made my highest hourly money.

So my question is, does anyone take a budget and then adjust their working methods around that flat rate?

Ie, low budget = live tracking with minimal overdubs
Big budget = capture drums, lots of overdubs and edits, extra mix time, etc

As I scratch my head on this, I'm thinking I need to start quoting hourly rates.
But would rather do flat rates, keeping it casual, mixing time off the clock for my convenience sake.

Sory for the ramble, any thoughts?
Thanks so much!

Nope, do hourly... nothing says "rape my time" like keeping it casual. and doing anything off the clock, then why do it at all? If you're off the clock stuff will take longer, IMO.

Cheers

[solo-bration]

I mostly charge hourly. It's just simpler for both me and the client. It keeps them focused too. 'Flat rate' might mean "as long as it takes" to them - which can be an eternity for me. Because I freelance drums at another studio, I'll quote them a flat rate for the drum days (what the studio charges me + a days pay for me). All overdubs at my studio are hourly. With mixing, I've been doing a flat rate which works out to about 2 hours a song. I definitely lose a little money on the flat-rate mixing because I always spend more than 2 hours per song. BUT, it allows me more time to spend on them, free of stress and a ticking clock. I also find myself doing a lot of drum editing/auto-tuning off the clock. I feel like putting in the extra time and effort usually pays off in the end. Things sound better. Band is happy. Word spreads.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

For me it's either hourly/per day or they give me a budget and I come up with a plan and breakdown on how it will be spent with some options.
I'm freelance so the breakdowns usually include options on a few different studios with the pros and cons of each explained (ie less time in a great but expensive studio vs more time in a lesser but cheper studio)

Either way I make my rate.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

P.S. Decide what you are worth and stick to it. I learned long ago that if you are the cheap guy you'll only get the cheap records. You will end up killing yourself to do the best recording for no money and next time when the band has money they'll go to the more expensive guy. If they got a great record out of you for almost nothing just think how much better the expensive guy will be.

You'll never get what your worth without asking for it.

[Dave Stanley]

Great ideas and thoughts guys, thanks a bunch.

I just quoted a day rate that is more than a real comerical studio nearby.
And they like the price! I guess it all depends on who your working with.

I really like Solo-Bration's hybrid approach.

[vorian]

So it seems like no one is a big fan of the flat rate... what about day rates vs. hourly? Do you like or not like day rates? Do you discount your day rate from your hourly prices?

[Nick Sevilla]

So it seems like no one is a big fan of the flat rate... what about day rates vs. hourly? Do you like or not like day rates? Do you discount your day rate from your hourly prices?

I do day rates, when it's like three months or more of work.

I also put in an overtime clause, so that I do not get clobbered with overtime on any particular day.

Cheers

[JohnDavisNYC]

we do day rates, but a day has a clear definiton: up to 10 hours. and it is a slight discount from our hourly rate... we do mostly full day sessions, so it makes sense, but we define how much work we are going to do, and how much the client is going to pay. keeps things nice and clear!

i will do flat rates as a producer, but not as an engineer... my time in the studio has a price, but if i like a project i'll spend time doing pre-pro, etc. on a per song flat rate.

john