budget desktop pc??
budget desktop pc??
hello all, soon to be in the market for a new desktop pc and would like some advice. i'm seeing lots of options in the under $800 price point from the likes of HP, Dell, Acer, Compaq, etc. and i'm hoping to hear some pros/cons anyone might have to help guide me. i use sonar 8 pe and live 7, although most of my music making occurs outside the box, meaning the computer is most often my tracking/mixing medium, but i will be using some soft synths and various vsts to a lesser extent. i plan on continuing to use my trusty aardvark 24/96 for time being. thanks in advance, i'm new to this forum and have found loads of useful info so far and hope to continue...
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CurtZHP
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Are you comfortable "rolling your own?"
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timmymacdd
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mY ADVICE
iF YOU WANT TO SAVE 100 dollars is to find which store has the best 500 dollar model on sale......
USUALLY- a 800 dollar computer will be on sale for 550 at one of the superstores.
You want to concentrate on OEM stuff.....fast pc chip at quad speed now and now less than duo core.
AMD chips save craploads of money and run with no problems. Intel will cost you an extra 75 bucks for the computer....so if you want a touch faster for the same amount of money go with AMD.....I simply only buy AMD for the last 8 years.
You will have to upgrade the video chip for 150 bucks and also buy a used soundcard with the other 300 bucks. BUt your computer will be top notch with 800 bucks and a smart shopper. The soundcard you buy used will be used in pristine condition by the previous owner in that all of our soundcards are the most important thing in our studios and we always are looking to get more.....so there are plenty for 1/2 price. don't spend less than 150 on that though. AND GET AT LEAST 2 INPUTS....IF YOU WASTE your money and buy a soundcard that is BRAND NEW for 200 dollars you will be sadly disappointed in that they don't make a good soundcard new for 250 and under....in my opinion. SO if you are cheap like me...or broke like me.....than shop used.....
ALSO note- about ten percent of used soundcards(gotta love my statistics) are BUNK.......and something doesn't work on them.....what I do is go to the persons house and check it out......usually you can tell if something is working or not and sense a scammer......CRAIGSLIST.com. very important....EBay is risking it....especially if you are buying from a pawn store on EBAY.....I am a crack addict and when I need more crack I take my broke shit to the pawn store and sell it.....hehe.......Of course sometimes I take good shit too......hehe.
AS for the video card.....OEM-CHEAP AS HELL but with as many MB's as you can get for 150 bucks. ANd look around.....where you look is the rebate isle....not the sale isle.....go right for the discount rack......most of the discontinued or not sold in store brands anymore are perfect...I have a 1028 MB video card that rocks that I bought for 150.....it beats the hell out of the 128 MB card that came with my computer....and even though it is only an nvidea card and cheap for some strange reason......well it is at least twice as good as a 528 MB video card even if it sucks. LOL-ACTUALLY you can skip this step altogether....since audio actually uses no video memory anyways......but with vista the more video power the better.
ALSO RAM..........Get as much as you can......buy a 64 bit AMD since that is where computers will be in 1.5 years.....they are there now.....but 32 bit will not be here in 1.5 years. 4 MEGs minimum on the RAM. you might go with only 3 but the more the merrier-especially since that is what determines how many VST plugins will run at one time on your computer.
ALSO........if you skip the video card....which now thinking about it....an extra internal hard drive is more important.....and you can go cheap here as well.......50-80 bucks.....at least the same speed as the one in your computer you are buying. It doesn't really matter how big this drive is but bigger is better.......but when you run software you want one small 250 GIG to keep vista and all software and one small or big drive to shoot all of your audio onto......It doesn't matter the quality of the drives though since in the next year you will have to buy at least one external drive to save stuff to. I always go cheap with drives....since they double in size every two years.....and noone wants a great drive that is 2 times as small in two years......you will always be adding hard drives until you have 30 sitting in your drawers.
Hti me up with any other questions.......AND literally if you are buying an HP(which I love) best buy/circuit city/walmart/sears all sell the same model and one of them has it on sale.....especially if you buy a later model....you will find that one of those has one sitting in the end of the isle pile. So don't be afraid to waste the gas driving around......and spend time talking with the sales people at each store.
The rumors of what you need and what you don't vary though.....so ask lots of people and research it all......If you wait 4 weeks to buy after you actually have the money than you will save at least 100 dollars......computers go down in value that fast. And always keep in mind that you can do everything on a free computer as well.....The soundcard in a computer from 8 years ago on a slow ass computer still makes the same good quality CD's that we make on our fast machines with expensive soundcards today....It is always what you know and how you use it that really matters,,,,,,,,And you will always want and need something more.....
Good luck
USUALLY- a 800 dollar computer will be on sale for 550 at one of the superstores.
You want to concentrate on OEM stuff.....fast pc chip at quad speed now and now less than duo core.
AMD chips save craploads of money and run with no problems. Intel will cost you an extra 75 bucks for the computer....so if you want a touch faster for the same amount of money go with AMD.....I simply only buy AMD for the last 8 years.
You will have to upgrade the video chip for 150 bucks and also buy a used soundcard with the other 300 bucks. BUt your computer will be top notch with 800 bucks and a smart shopper. The soundcard you buy used will be used in pristine condition by the previous owner in that all of our soundcards are the most important thing in our studios and we always are looking to get more.....so there are plenty for 1/2 price. don't spend less than 150 on that though. AND GET AT LEAST 2 INPUTS....IF YOU WASTE your money and buy a soundcard that is BRAND NEW for 200 dollars you will be sadly disappointed in that they don't make a good soundcard new for 250 and under....in my opinion. SO if you are cheap like me...or broke like me.....than shop used.....
ALSO note- about ten percent of used soundcards(gotta love my statistics) are BUNK.......and something doesn't work on them.....what I do is go to the persons house and check it out......usually you can tell if something is working or not and sense a scammer......CRAIGSLIST.com. very important....EBay is risking it....especially if you are buying from a pawn store on EBAY.....I am a crack addict and when I need more crack I take my broke shit to the pawn store and sell it.....hehe.......Of course sometimes I take good shit too......hehe.
AS for the video card.....OEM-CHEAP AS HELL but with as many MB's as you can get for 150 bucks. ANd look around.....where you look is the rebate isle....not the sale isle.....go right for the discount rack......most of the discontinued or not sold in store brands anymore are perfect...I have a 1028 MB video card that rocks that I bought for 150.....it beats the hell out of the 128 MB card that came with my computer....and even though it is only an nvidea card and cheap for some strange reason......well it is at least twice as good as a 528 MB video card even if it sucks. LOL-ACTUALLY you can skip this step altogether....since audio actually uses no video memory anyways......but with vista the more video power the better.
ALSO RAM..........Get as much as you can......buy a 64 bit AMD since that is where computers will be in 1.5 years.....they are there now.....but 32 bit will not be here in 1.5 years. 4 MEGs minimum on the RAM. you might go with only 3 but the more the merrier-especially since that is what determines how many VST plugins will run at one time on your computer.
ALSO........if you skip the video card....which now thinking about it....an extra internal hard drive is more important.....and you can go cheap here as well.......50-80 bucks.....at least the same speed as the one in your computer you are buying. It doesn't really matter how big this drive is but bigger is better.......but when you run software you want one small 250 GIG to keep vista and all software and one small or big drive to shoot all of your audio onto......It doesn't matter the quality of the drives though since in the next year you will have to buy at least one external drive to save stuff to. I always go cheap with drives....since they double in size every two years.....and noone wants a great drive that is 2 times as small in two years......you will always be adding hard drives until you have 30 sitting in your drawers.
Hti me up with any other questions.......AND literally if you are buying an HP(which I love) best buy/circuit city/walmart/sears all sell the same model and one of them has it on sale.....especially if you buy a later model....you will find that one of those has one sitting in the end of the isle pile. So don't be afraid to waste the gas driving around......and spend time talking with the sales people at each store.
The rumors of what you need and what you don't vary though.....so ask lots of people and research it all......If you wait 4 weeks to buy after you actually have the money than you will save at least 100 dollars......computers go down in value that fast. And always keep in mind that you can do everything on a free computer as well.....The soundcard in a computer from 8 years ago on a slow ass computer still makes the same good quality CD's that we make on our fast machines with expensive soundcards today....It is always what you know and how you use it that really matters,,,,,,,,And you will always want and need something more.....
Good luck
thanks timmymacdd, much appreciated. i've already got a handle on what i want/need spec-wise, was more concerned with personal experience with those particular brands. i've been involved with computer based recording for a bit, just never had much in the way of a 'proper' computer. thinking a dual core with 2-4gb of ram is what i'm after, already got my interface (aardvark 24/96, older but still holding true for now). eyeballing an HP at a local walmart, thinking that's the way to go but i've not seen much, if any, feedback concerning using it for music production. anyone??
thanks again.
thanks again.
i think the only pre-built computer i have ever owned is my laptop (first i've owned, finally gave in) and even that was a freebie.
i've been building mine from parts since the early 90s and haven't even paid for anything except sometimes memory and the occasional hard drive in many years...i'm pretty sure i bought a Pentium III processor in the box back in 1999, but that's the last time i paid for a processor.
of course, it helps that i am frequently inundated with spare parts and stripped down machines from friends who still work in IT and are seemingly constantly getting rid of any gear that's over 2 years old.
*is still collecting the little motherboard POST beep speakers to make a weird speaker cabinet for a Little Gem MkII amp*
i've been building mine from parts since the early 90s and haven't even paid for anything except sometimes memory and the occasional hard drive in many years...i'm pretty sure i bought a Pentium III processor in the box back in 1999, but that's the last time i paid for a processor.
of course, it helps that i am frequently inundated with spare parts and stripped down machines from friends who still work in IT and are seemingly constantly getting rid of any gear that's over 2 years old.
*is still collecting the little motherboard POST beep speakers to make a weird speaker cabinet for a Little Gem MkII amp*
Last edited by RefD on Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca
yeah, i've got friends who have built their own and i understand the cost savings inherent in doing so, but i have neither the time nor the savvy to do that. i mean, i'm sure i could, it's the time factor involved with research and educating myself that steers me away from that route. so, an over-the-counter remedy will have to suffice. seriously considering HP unless anyone can give me a good reason not to.
i'm pretty sure HP and Compaq have been the same company for a number of years now, if that's any help to you.
that and avoid low end Dells cos they're built from tin foil and dried chewing gum.
*still misses DEC terribly*
that and avoid low end Dells cos they're built from tin foil and dried chewing gum.
*still misses DEC terribly*
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca
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timmymacdd
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WELL.....HP is great....dell is great...they are really all the same.
You will hear gripes and grumbles on all of them.
I did research and if you have a computer.....you can have a QUAD CORE-8 gigs RAM- and a motherboard to connect it all together for 520 bucks with a CPU fan............HEHE.........
Of course you will need software.......but that can be had.
ANd that would be some manual labor.
I have been running my HP since 2005 when I bought it and had no problems with it......except the dvd that broke on month 2 (35 dollars for a new one-the next time....6 moths....that I actually burned a DVD).....my computer never shuts off.....maybe 30 days a year is it shut off......but running for basically 3 years straight. SO I like them. (same hard drive, MB, CPU, I upgraded all of the ram though.-but the old stuff I still have sitting on the floor)
But I have also actually never seen a computer die before it was already outdated. I fix computers for a part time living. When something breaks on a computer it is mostly just un-luck and easily fixable if you have half a brain. Hard drives die sometimes but usually it is the benefit of getting one that is double in size and speed. Anything on a computer is actually a benefit if it breaks about 1.5 years in......then you upgrade a little-no harm no foul......and if you lost data,,,,well then you just suck. LOL
SO I GIVE HP much respect. AND they are cheap as shit. I could buy ten if I wanted to for their price. The damn software costs twenty times more than the computer....so when buying a computer from BEST BUY I look at it as a legal copy of vista really plus 200 bucks....hehe.
ONE thing I will say about computers though is that right now is not a great time to buy a computer....since APPLE has the double QUad core computer out and everyone is going to have to switch over to 64 bit machines next year I am not sure if I would settle for a dual core processor personally. I would be looking at spending my loot on at least a QUad core processor. ANd apples is at 3.3 gHZ. which is damn fast.......SO PC's are going to have to combat that with something as good or usually better.....So Wait a little while.....hehe. I was trying to part together a computer that fast...and it can't be done for less than what apple is charging for it.
You will hear gripes and grumbles on all of them.
I did research and if you have a computer.....you can have a QUAD CORE-8 gigs RAM- and a motherboard to connect it all together for 520 bucks with a CPU fan............HEHE.........
Of course you will need software.......but that can be had.
ANd that would be some manual labor.
I have been running my HP since 2005 when I bought it and had no problems with it......except the dvd that broke on month 2 (35 dollars for a new one-the next time....6 moths....that I actually burned a DVD).....my computer never shuts off.....maybe 30 days a year is it shut off......but running for basically 3 years straight. SO I like them. (same hard drive, MB, CPU, I upgraded all of the ram though.-but the old stuff I still have sitting on the floor)
But I have also actually never seen a computer die before it was already outdated. I fix computers for a part time living. When something breaks on a computer it is mostly just un-luck and easily fixable if you have half a brain. Hard drives die sometimes but usually it is the benefit of getting one that is double in size and speed. Anything on a computer is actually a benefit if it breaks about 1.5 years in......then you upgrade a little-no harm no foul......and if you lost data,,,,well then you just suck. LOL
SO I GIVE HP much respect. AND they are cheap as shit. I could buy ten if I wanted to for their price. The damn software costs twenty times more than the computer....so when buying a computer from BEST BUY I look at it as a legal copy of vista really plus 200 bucks....hehe.
ONE thing I will say about computers though is that right now is not a great time to buy a computer....since APPLE has the double QUad core computer out and everyone is going to have to switch over to 64 bit machines next year I am not sure if I would settle for a dual core processor personally. I would be looking at spending my loot on at least a QUad core processor. ANd apples is at 3.3 gHZ. which is damn fast.......SO PC's are going to have to combat that with something as good or usually better.....So Wait a little while.....hehe. I was trying to part together a computer that fast...and it can't be done for less than what apple is charging for it.
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timmymacdd
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Building your own is a waste of time.....your computer will be double as fast as you even need it to be. Plus it is not actually cheaper when you buy the operating system. MY HP I can't even hear running when it is on(unless the fan gets dog hair and smoke in it)oil_can wrote:yeah, i've got friends who have built their own and i understand the cost savings inherent in doing so, but i have neither the time nor the savvy to do that. i mean, i'm sure i could, it's the time factor involved with research and educating myself that steers me away from that route. so, an over-the-counter remedy will have to suffice. seriously considering HP unless anyone can give me a good reason not to.
i wouldn't make anyone run Vista.
and building your own makes plenty of sense if you already know what you're doing.
but if you're not wanting to bother with all that, HPs are fine.
however, i stand by my statement regarding low end Dells...utter crap.
and building your own makes plenty of sense if you already know what you're doing.
but if you're not wanting to bother with all that, HPs are fine.
however, i stand by my statement regarding low end Dells...utter crap.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca
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timmymacdd
- takin' a dinner break
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I run vista-And it is so Beautiful and never ever crashes....and I run a crap load of plugs.....
I think the secret may be in the fact that I upgraded the video chip on my motherboard so that i can have all of those cool little video windows open and it is not sucking up my ram or CPU.
Also I learned long ago that you don't run your operating system and record audio to the same internal drive.....and most people try to do that or run it to an external drive....when in reality you should be running to a second internal drive...if you want vista to run nice for you.
I wouldn't live without vista period. There are about 10 things that vista kicks the butt out of XP on.....TRUE- they are ten stupid things but isn't that what american life is all about(the stupid stuff)?
THe wicked part of vista is the little desktop calender and weather guide....but even more wicked is the control panel and the ease of shutting down all of the optional startup programs from one push of a button. And the tilt screen. /the fact that vista will just guess at a working driver whenever something is plugged into it and make it work-not always a good thing....but at least it gives it a go instead of having to look on the damn internet for a driver when someone comes to the studio with an external piece of hardware. It makes it work 80 percent of the time.....instead of acting like it has never seen a flash drive before like in XP.
BUT back to the build it yourself stuff- How much are you guys spending on build it yourself systems? And are you re-using your cpu fans, energy packs, cases, and operating system? When I do the math it costs about 1000 dollars to build a computer with a legit operating system. I can buy the same HP computer for 500 bucks with an operating system and a mouse and keyboard. I then have 500 bucks to buy sound and video and hard drives........Every time I do the math it seems it is has been cheaper to just go out and buy the whole computer...and add a monitor to their package deal and it is win win.
The only way I can see this making sense is if you are re-using a lot of stuff from your old computer or if you are just richer than me....hehe.
THE rumors of operating systems not working right is due to not the pirated software but the pirated software and then turning off your antivirus in order to record. A computer is so fast though that you should be able to run a stacked vista and slow as hell antivirus and it should still record 8 inputs with 20 plugins open. be carefull thogh since EQ actually bogs down your CPU load the most out of any plugin. SO learn offline editing...or freezing of tracks-especially as it relates to EQ. Also learning to use group channels(sends/busses) to duplicate multiple effects such as chorus, tube, reverb,delay) will not only make your mix sound incredible(since it sounds better if most of the parts go through the same effects per song) it will also help with the CPU load.
Also to note it is best to record in the correct order to take advantage of the CPU load. It is not wise to record a guitar and 12 vocal tracks(with effects) before you track drums....especially if you are putting plugins all over the place. I have friends that try and do that. Get you live tracks and midi inputted first as dry as possible so that it all tracks correctly. Especially the drum parts if you are using 8 or more in's.
Vista Rules.! Bill gates rules too. I can't wait for windows7.
I think the secret may be in the fact that I upgraded the video chip on my motherboard so that i can have all of those cool little video windows open and it is not sucking up my ram or CPU.
Also I learned long ago that you don't run your operating system and record audio to the same internal drive.....and most people try to do that or run it to an external drive....when in reality you should be running to a second internal drive...if you want vista to run nice for you.
I wouldn't live without vista period. There are about 10 things that vista kicks the butt out of XP on.....TRUE- they are ten stupid things but isn't that what american life is all about(the stupid stuff)?
THe wicked part of vista is the little desktop calender and weather guide....but even more wicked is the control panel and the ease of shutting down all of the optional startup programs from one push of a button. And the tilt screen. /the fact that vista will just guess at a working driver whenever something is plugged into it and make it work-not always a good thing....but at least it gives it a go instead of having to look on the damn internet for a driver when someone comes to the studio with an external piece of hardware. It makes it work 80 percent of the time.....instead of acting like it has never seen a flash drive before like in XP.
BUT back to the build it yourself stuff- How much are you guys spending on build it yourself systems? And are you re-using your cpu fans, energy packs, cases, and operating system? When I do the math it costs about 1000 dollars to build a computer with a legit operating system. I can buy the same HP computer for 500 bucks with an operating system and a mouse and keyboard. I then have 500 bucks to buy sound and video and hard drives........Every time I do the math it seems it is has been cheaper to just go out and buy the whole computer...and add a monitor to their package deal and it is win win.
The only way I can see this making sense is if you are re-using a lot of stuff from your old computer or if you are just richer than me....hehe.
THE rumors of operating systems not working right is due to not the pirated software but the pirated software and then turning off your antivirus in order to record. A computer is so fast though that you should be able to run a stacked vista and slow as hell antivirus and it should still record 8 inputs with 20 plugins open. be carefull thogh since EQ actually bogs down your CPU load the most out of any plugin. SO learn offline editing...or freezing of tracks-especially as it relates to EQ. Also learning to use group channels(sends/busses) to duplicate multiple effects such as chorus, tube, reverb,delay) will not only make your mix sound incredible(since it sounds better if most of the parts go through the same effects per song) it will also help with the CPU load.
Also to note it is best to record in the correct order to take advantage of the CPU load. It is not wise to record a guitar and 12 vocal tracks(with effects) before you track drums....especially if you are putting plugins all over the place. I have friends that try and do that. Get you live tracks and midi inputted first as dry as possible so that it all tracks correctly. Especially the drum parts if you are using 8 or more in's.
Vista Rules.! Bill gates rules too. I can't wait for windows7.
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CurtZHP
- re-cappin' neve
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As you can tell by later replies, "rolling your own" meant buidling it yourself.
If you do go with an off-the-shelf or factory built machine, there's one thing you must do no matter what. As soon as you take it out of the box and plug it in, reinstall the OS. Find the recovery disk it came with (or the OS install disk) and do a complete wipe-the-hard-drive-clean OS reinstallation.
When they install the OS at the factory, they don't have some guy sitting there taking 45 minutes to do a real install. They use a drive image of the OS to do a sort of "flash" install that only takes a few minutes. The problem is that, once in a while, a line or two of code will get mangled in the process. The thing will work fine out of the box for a while, but eventually the machine will start to act squirrelly. You'll drive yourself to drink trying to fix it.
The station where I work spent thousands a few years ago replacing all the PCs in the automation system with factory built computers. Most of them exhibited this behavior after a few months of service. After talking to a few guys who've been working with computers since the 8086 days, I reinstalled the OS on them. All the bad behavior disappeared and hasn't been back since.
If you do go with an off-the-shelf or factory built machine, there's one thing you must do no matter what. As soon as you take it out of the box and plug it in, reinstall the OS. Find the recovery disk it came with (or the OS install disk) and do a complete wipe-the-hard-drive-clean OS reinstallation.
When they install the OS at the factory, they don't have some guy sitting there taking 45 minutes to do a real install. They use a drive image of the OS to do a sort of "flash" install that only takes a few minutes. The problem is that, once in a while, a line or two of code will get mangled in the process. The thing will work fine out of the box for a while, but eventually the machine will start to act squirrelly. You'll drive yourself to drink trying to fix it.
The station where I work spent thousands a few years ago replacing all the PCs in the automation system with factory built computers. Most of them exhibited this behavior after a few months of service. After talking to a few guys who've been working with computers since the 8086 days, I reinstalled the OS on them. All the bad behavior disappeared and hasn't been back since.
"TEMPUS FUGIT" the Novel -- Now Available!!
http://www.curtyengst.com
http://www.curtyengst.com
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timmymacdd
- takin' a dinner break
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HAHAHA that was funny and true.
Drinking and fixing computers is great. re-installing the OP a must if nothing else at least to get rid of all of the trial software they put on it.
.....and make sure you burn the copy of the recovery dvd while the DVD player still works so you don't have to wait 10 weeks for them to ship you a copy of the operating system when your hard drive fails or you accidentely erase the recovery portion where the operating system is given to you that way you can get an extra 3 gigs out of your hard drive.
Drinking and fixing computers is great. re-installing the OP a must if nothing else at least to get rid of all of the trial software they put on it.
.....and make sure you burn the copy of the recovery dvd while the DVD player still works so you don't have to wait 10 weeks for them to ship you a copy of the operating system when your hard drive fails or you accidentely erase the recovery portion where the operating system is given to you that way you can get an extra 3 gigs out of your hard drive.
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