De-essing Room Mics

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Gummy
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Post by Gummy » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:38 am

joel hamilton wrote: Remember that when trying to "mine' some attack out of a washy track. the needle doesnt have to come back to "0" to be shaping the heck out of the first 30ms or whatever you set it to. effectively, that means you have turned down everything "after" the first 30 Ms, which can read as more snap from the snare and toms and kick in the room mics, with less cymbal wash when mixed in with the OH and close mics....
This helps so much. I still have pages of notes about compressors from a weekend at Studio G that I look at all the time. Joel can get compressors to do all kinds of stuff. One of his Sta-Levels answers the phones and sweeps up.
It may be a garage, but it doesn't sound like one.

bigtexasthriller
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Post by bigtexasthriller » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:52 pm

themagicmanmdt wrote:
also, not using condensor mics on drums REALLY helps. ribbons and dynamics all the way.
Now that you mention it, it was the condenser mic I use as a room mic that was giving me trouble.....the ribbon was fine....good point.....
Do the best you can with what you have.....

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joel hamilton
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Post by joel hamilton » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:05 am

Gummy wrote:
joel hamilton wrote: Remember that when trying to "mine' some attack out of a washy track. the needle doesnt have to come back to "0" to be shaping the heck out of the first 30ms or whatever you set it to. effectively, that means you have turned down everything "after" the first 30 Ms, which can read as more snap from the snare and toms and kick in the room mics, with less cymbal wash when mixed in with the OH and close mics....
This helps so much. I still have pages of notes about compressors from a weekend at Studio G that I look at all the time. Joel can get compressors to do all kinds of stuff. One of his Sta-Levels answers the phones and sweeps up.
Always feel free to email me with follow up questions, or even just to say hello!!!
Also, that STA-LEVEL is now my wife....

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mjau
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Post by mjau » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:13 am

joel hamilton wrote:Also, that STA-LEVEL is now my wife....
*pictures Joel and the Gates on a Vespa taking a romantic country drive this spring*

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Gummy
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Post by Gummy » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:04 am

Thanks Joel, I will. And congrats on the nuptials. Please let me know if you find time to do another of those weekends.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:17 am

mjau wrote:
joel hamilton wrote:Also, that STA-LEVEL is now my wife....
*pictures Joel and the Gates on a Vespa taking a romantic country drive this spring*
somebody make this happen in photoshop.

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firesine
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Post by firesine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:25 pm

Image
Mmm, lung butter.

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Recycled_Brains
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Post by Recycled_Brains » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:54 am

firesine wrote:Image

Handsome woman.
Ryan Slowey
Albany, NY

http://maggotbrainny.bandcamp.com

MoreSpaceEcho
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:50 am

damn, joel's missus is buff.

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firesine
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Post by firesine » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:51 am

Well, she is a Sta-Level!
Mmm, lung butter.

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Post by joel hamilton » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:17 pm

firesine wrote:Image
Holy crap that is hilarious....
wow.

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davepinkham
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Post by davepinkham » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:50 am

i'm pretty sure that applying this just made my drum mixes sound twice as good. you are amazing.
joel hamilton wrote:I use a super slow compressor for this. you can effectively turn down anything with longer duration that 150 Ms by setting the attack at , um, well, 150 Ms or so, and at a really low ratio, like 1.5:1. release at like 500 Ms.
then listen as you pull down the cymbals when you pull dow the threshold, but the leading edge of the drums remains intact. The de-esser, without atack and release, can really fuck up my snare and toms. I have done it, but I dont love it. I would rather have a sidechained compressor in extreme cases, with the same type of ratio/ time constants as above, but high passed to let EVERYTHING through under like 1k at least.
Either that or I will give up on the shitty balance in the room mic, lowpass one of them at 60hz, and use it as a killer tom and kick "bloom" mic with an expander before the 24db lowpass.
Also, the SPL transient designer is GREAT for shaping room mics like this, by adding a little attack, and removing a little decay, then compressing a little... you effctively "re-bias" the room mics towards drummy-ness rather than cymbally-ness...
Lots of tricks, but it depends on the source so much, as always.
one of the most common misconceptions about compressors is that they do not exhibit the attack characteristic until the release cycle has ended, and it is simply not true. The atack function goes chugging along perfectly even when the needle is buried at 20 db of reduction.
Remember that when trying to "mine' some attack out of a washy track. the needle doesnt have to come back to "0" to be shaping the heck out of the first 30ms or whatever you set it to. effectively, that means you have turned down everything "after" the first 30 Ms, which can read as more snap from the snare and toms and kick in the room mics, with less cymbal wash when mixed in with the OH and close mics....
Also, another very siple approach that I will use often when the room mics are cymbal heavy: turn them down. a lot.

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:11 am

Hi,

I find using lopass and hipas filters on most of the drum mics is best, then decide whether the cymbals need more taming.

Are you filtering out everything past 8khz in all drums?

Are you filtering all below 200 Hz on the cymbal mics?

Try that first, then finish EQing the cymbals until they sound good to you.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Jon~T
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Post by Jon~T » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:21 pm

great thread.

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:15 pm

I just mixed an album for Neto Heyden, from Mexico City.

The drums were sounding like they were filtered twice thorugh a used coffee filter, you know, dark, foreboding, not to much high end.

And the music demanded top end from the drums.

I use the NY side compression with a Waves CLA 1176 "Bluey"

I sent all the drum tracks, POST fader, POST pan, into a stereo buss that fed this compressor.

I set it to limiter mode, so it would not allow any transients through, and then set the release so it would recover volume somewhat in time with the music. I also put a hipass filter on it, set at 150Hz, so that portion of the drums did not trigger the compressor at all. 4:1 ratio (the smallest). Fast attack, release dpending on music beats, so it would knock down at every big beat.

The drums went from the doldrums to stellar in no time flat. There is something to be said about that NY side-chain compression technique. I got the cymbals back, and a smile on the client's face.

Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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