How to get tight hi-hat sound

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trevord
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How to get tight hi-hat sound

Post by trevord » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:54 pm

Hi
I am trying to record hi-hat loops by itself (that is hi-hat only)
what i am looking for is that "tsss" sound.

I know i can equalize it but I also want the chomp sound (which is why I am doing my own loops instead of using individual samples) I want to get the transition sound of the pedal motion.

So I accept the whole "chain of excellence" thing - start with a good hi-hat, but every hi-hat I audition sounds like "tushhhh" (to my ears anyway)
Questions
can I get a hi-hat that has that hi clean "tssss"
or
if there a recording technique which can get the hi-hat to sound high and tight when closed but also get the meaty chomp

thanks in advance
trevor

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nopenopenope
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Post by nopenopenope » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:10 pm

admittedly, i have limited experience. but i've found to get a brighter open HH sound, keep the hat open the smallest amount possible, so that the top is actually rattling against the bottom a little.

i hope that gets you all the "tssss" you need! :D

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0-it-hz
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Post by 0-it-hz » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:47 pm

Hire a drummer with good technique and a nice instrument... then put a mic near them and tell them what you're looking for.
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NeglectedFred
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Post by NeglectedFred » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:11 pm

Oh dude, I love that sound.. It's really easy to get when you track hats alone. I like to make hihat loops since I record a lot of solo stuff and drums aren't my strongest area.

I like to do MS, but I run the center into a saturated and crunchy compressor.

For the sides I like to back the mic off a few feet, but this will screw up the MS decoding unless you manually align the tracks 90 deg.

To align them, zoom in very close to where you only have maybe 3 - 5 complete modulations of the wave forms on the screen. Pick a distinguishable modulation on one of the waveforms that is recognizable on both tracks. Set the marker on the highest peak in the middle of the modulation on the 'center' wave form, then drag the 'sides' track until the beggining 0db point just before modulation begins on the marker.

Now you have full stereo image, fully mono compatable, and the ability to balance the clean vs. crunchy texture of the hats.

I usually bus all my drum samples together into a tapesim plugin and an extremely low dose of reverb. That always helps add a little punch in the stomach and a twinkle in the eye. The kind of flirting I like from both my drums and my women.
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Post by JGriffin » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:47 pm

Some examples are perhaps in order. Stewart Copeland's hat? The hats on Aja?
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trevord
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Post by trevord » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:26 am

dwlb wrote:Some examples are perhaps in order. Stewart Copeland's hat? The hats on Aja?
I guess if i was picking sounds i would say the hats from Bob Marley lets say Rastaman Vibrations or Exodus rather than the "bell"y type like say the early Al Green.
As far as fancy engineering goes - the most I do now is eq and gate a little white noise. But ths MS method gets a better balance between closing chomp and closed tsss ;). I'll try it.

But I'd like the source to be as close as possible the the sound I'm looking for -
I'll try the slightly open technique thanks.

As far as hiring a drummer - I'm learning so I don't mind putting in the time.

Thanks
Trevor

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Post by DrummerMan » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:32 am

Agreeing with JoshSites, I'd also say keep the opening as small as possible and that your answer rests more in the foot technique of the drummer than the micing or mixing technique. Lighter hats will help too, though. Not necessarily super light, just avoiding the kind that are like two barbells clanging together.

When I'm plAying hihat, and I want that tight a sound, I'm not lifting my whole foot, or even the front part of my foot. I just lift my big toe. That's the kind of slight pressure change that'll give you the smallest, tightest opening. Also, if your hihat stand has an angle adjustment under the bottom cymbal, giving it some angle will help make sure the two cymbals stay connected, at least when dealing with the small opening as described. That should also help you in your quest.
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DrummerMan
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Post by DrummerMan » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:35 am

Also make sure the top hat isn't being clamped in too tight I'm the clutch. Again, not super loose, just not choking it.
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casey campbell
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Post by casey campbell » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:05 am

0-it-hz wrote:Hire a drummer with good technique and a nice instrument... then put a mic near them and tell them what you're looking for.
thats it....

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Post by T-rex » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:09 pm

Good tips, also there is a little adjustment screw under the bottom cymbal that if you tighten it it will put a slight angle on the bottom hat changing the relation to the top and changing the sound AND the chick sound from closing the hat. Personally I never liked using this and usually play totally flat but it is somehting you can try.

When I want this type of sound, I usually use New Beat hihats which have holes in the bottom cymbal.
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trevord
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Post by trevord » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:09 pm

thanks everyone
TOMB is awesome !!!
previously i had just auditioned the hats when closed

I appreciate the difficulty in laying down a good hihat track - thats why i would never call myself a drummer - but to me , groovy hihats are key to any kind of dance track and any kind of feeling is almost impossible to get with midi and samples. I know - I've tried.
I would be happy if all I could do was play good hihats ;)

Thanks again everyone
Trevor

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timmymacdd
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Post by timmymacdd » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:32 pm

The Drummer's skill IS the only key to getting that sound......and the ability of you to explain to him what you want.

ANY drummer can't do that.....that's what talent is for.....Mics,pre-amps,knowledge, DAW, plugins, rooms, mic positioning.....are all bunk to an actually GREAT drummer.

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Post by cgarges » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:01 pm

To me, the hi hats on Rastaman Vibration sound like old, thin, kind of trashy hats. If there's a mic on them (and I don't have the album in front of me to listen), it's probably a small diaphragm solid-state condenser from the 60s or 70s that has that kind of "fizzy" top, like an AKG 451, as opposed to something more modern and hard-sounding, like an Audio Technica 4051. There's probably a good bit of rolling off everything below 200Hz, maybe higher. The drums were almost undoubtedly recorded in a dead room, which will have a big effect on the sound of the hi hats.

Carly Barret was an awesome drummer, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you don't need him to sample a hi hat that sounds like his.

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NeglectedFred
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Post by NeglectedFred » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:56 pm

timmymacdd wrote:The Drummer's skill IS the only key to getting that sound......and the ability of you to explain to him what you want.

ANY drummer can't do that.....that's what talent is for.....Mics,pre-amps,knowledge, DAW, plugins, rooms, mic positioning.....are all bunk to an actually GREAT drummer.
I agree man, 100%.. But I believe a not-so-great but can-cut-it-when-he-need's-to kinda drummer like myself can acheive 90% of 'that sound' with a lot of motivation, some creative recording ideas, and a lot of takes.
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firesine
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Post by firesine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:02 pm

If I were overdubbing hi hat I would put up as many mics as I had inputs for and experiment with blending them together. For example a SDC near the bell can have a very hard and compressed sound. A mic farther out at a different angle can have a more open jangle-e sound. Try a 45 angle at the bell, perpendicular above the edge, horizontal pointing into the hats, and everything in between. Then try all those underneath the cymbals. The bottom hat is likely thicker than the top, so there is another tone for you to have in your library.
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