70s -80s punk/surf rock mixing ....

[sonicdeath]

Im mixing a band who wants the feel of older punk and surf rock recordings. I have never worked with a style like this. Its a challenge but Im sure it will expand my skill as a well rounded engineer. I have been listening to recordings by bands such as:

Clash: London Calling
Adolescents: Brats in Battalions
TSOL: Change Today
DI: What Good is Grief to a God
UK Subs: Endangered Species
UK Subs: Diminished responsibility

If anyone can give me any tips on techniques in the mix area of this genre, it whould be a huge help.

cheers.

[masonpitzel]

Don't start recording/mixing until you're drunk as hell.

[skiltrip]

Be sure to take a listen to Agent Orange "Living in Darkness".

Often the 'sound' of a lot of that stuff is just what had to be done based on what they had. On Living in Darkness, the band had all their gear stolen, so Mike Palm played guitar thru some sort of bass amp i believe that was in the studio with the volume on 10 to get some kinda distortion out of it.

And during one song, after they thought it to be done, they realized one of the toms mics had a bad cable, so none of those hits got recorded. The hits were essential (it was that double 'surf beat'), so they ended up getting two metal trash can lids from out behind the studio and slamming them together to take place of that drum that didn't get recorded.

I think a lot of it, is don't TRY to make it sound too good. It's a fine line to walk I think. Make sure the drums get room mic'd, cause you may want a lot of that sound in there.

It's hard to MAKE something sound punk. going back to the beginning of my post a lot of stuff happened on accident or because of crappy or fill-in equipment that they had.

If the band plays live, I'd try to capture as much of that as you can. If you have the ability to isolate, maybe have them play together and keep what you can.

[Dakota]

Spring reverb on guitars and vox as needed. Preferably a hardware unit as opposed to a plugin or impulse. Whatever you have, though.

I think a lot of it, is don't TRY to make it sound too good.

Great point. A lot of the sound of punk era stuff that is now "classic" in retrospect, lacked time and budget to get things slick. Which was often for the best.

But cheap/fast recording back then included the sound of abused tape as an overall color. Cheap/fast DAW abuse just sounds like meh converters.

Tracks that sound too "digital clear" you may want to run off to slightly cooking tape and bring back in and line back up. Even cassette might be fair game.

Resist the urge to do corrective edits other than fixing stuff that's distractingly wrong.

"Ragged in the right way", overall vibe.

A lot of that stuff is mid and upper mid heavy compared to current mixing. May want to emulate that.

More contextual listening: Dead Boys, "Sonic Reducer", "Ain't it Fun".

[Gentleman Jim]

If possible, avoid cleaning the tracks up too much with strip silence, gates, etc.

Try to set up just a couple of echos and reverbs and send multiple instuments to them. This will keep the individual instruments from sounding too separated.

Also avoid making the drums sound HUGE. This doesn't mean make them wimpy, but punk drums and metal drums are two different things. Excuse the overgeneralization, but punk drum sounds usually don't have as much separation.

The end result should sound roughly like a band playing together in a room, not a super in-your-face studio recording. The aesthetic of a lot of punk bands of the 80's was to try to capture the energy of the live show in the studio, not to carefully construct a sonic masterpiece slowly in a laboratory environment.

Don't be careless, but mix the songs faster than you might normally. This will aid you in maintaining some of the feel of the performance, rather than molding it into something else.

There's a bunch of great stories about The Clash recording London Calling with Guy Stevens, the producer. One that I come back to is when they recorded Brand New Cadillac, an old Vince Taylor song from 1958 or 59. It was the first song they were recording of the album, and they did it once. Stevens came out of the control room and said that it was a take, time for the next number. Topper Headon, the drummer, protested that they had to do it again; the song sped up at the end. Stevens said that all good rock and roll does, and that was a take. I try to keep that spirit in mind when things get too precious, since treating rock and roll as some kind of precise science usually produces results I find uninspiring.

[vvv]

I highly recommend you listen to some Pixies.

[Gentleman Jim]

?????????????????

Look, I love The Pixies, but you might as well recommend he listen to AJA.

When Surfer Rosa came out a good friend of mine who is older and worked at a record store told me to buy it. I very distinctly remember him telling me that I would love it because it had loud guitar and drums. I hated it at the time, because I thought it sounded sterile.

I've come around now, but it's still not something I would add to the list he had above.

[A National Acrobat]

I recorded a 3-piece teenage band last year and somehow it sounded exactly like the Adolescents and Germs GI cd's even using Pro-Tools.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Solid State Guitar Amps. I used a Line 6 guitar pod and it nailed that Adolescents sound.
2. Dead, dead, dead drums. Duct tape that snare, put some emperors on the toms, go easy on the overhead mic level: focus mainly on the drums, not the cymbals.
3. Pretend you have only 8 or 16 tracks to work with.

[TicTacShutUp]

For me, there are a couple main keys to this sound.

First, use Remo Controlled Sound heads http://www.music123.com/Remo-Controlled ... 4.Music123 (or something similar). They have a very dead sound that is super punchy. A lot of those drummers would remove the bottom heads from their toms and put the mic directly up into the shell (often something simple like an sm58). Have a look at studio photos from Joy Division/The Clash and you'll see. Also, if you get those heads you won't need to use pesky duct tape. The tone will be much better.

Also, almost all of those records seemed to use guitars set to the bridge pickup position (often a Telecaster or similar trebly single-coil). Add just a touch of fuzz and you've got the sound. Extra points for using an AC-30 or similar simulation.

The last thing is that those bands really loved Fender Precision and Rickenbacker basses. Set it to the neck pickup and add just a slight hint of overdrive and you'll be well on your way.

Good luck!

(I also second the spring reverb suggestion, when needed)

[vvv]

?????????????????

Look, I love The Pixies, but you might as well recommend he listen to AJA.

When Surfer Rosa came out a good friend of mine who is older and worked at a record store told me to buy it. I very distinctly remember him telling me that I would love it because it had loud guitar and drums. I hated it at the time, because I thought it sounded sterile.

I've come around now, but it's still not something I would add to the list he had above.

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

While I adore Surfer Rosa ("sterile"? Really? The lyrics alone could cause an STD!), I was thinking more Bossa Nova and Tromp, mebbe a little Doolittle.

I have always thought of some of that stuff as like surf with lyrics, and a lot of cola, and a little Kim.

[A National Acrobat]

Also, if you get those heads you won't need to use pesky duct tape. The tone will be much better.

Ah, c'mon...duct tape is wicked punk!

But definitely Remo CS heads, I totally forgot about those. That's an excellent suggestion.

Wish I had to make drums sound like that instead of making drums sound like 'Against Me'. Nothing but click tracks, double kick and sound replacing, then scrolling through each song looking for a bad flam to fix.

Spot had it made.

[skiltrip]

The various mentions of duct tape in this thread reminded me of the old days.

Back in my "punker" days, when I was young, playing in bands, I do remember duct tape being on all kinds of stuff. Not only drums, but holding guitars together, and keeping straps on guitars, taping mics to stands (bloody mic clip broke, tape it!), cords in amps (the bloody jack has a short in it, pull it back and tape it!). ripped speakers, you get the picture.

This is of course a post on the lighter side, but do yourself a favor and always have duct tape around.

And whatever those drum heads are that you don't need duct tape on.... why buy 'em when you can get a $3 roll of duct tape and do it the "right" way.

[Brett Siler]

I suggest reading these articles. They are about funk but I think the techniques would apply to punk. Besides all you are doing is replacing the f with a p

http://www.phobospeepl.dk/documents/shitty1.pdf
http://www.phobospeepl.dk/documents/shitty2.pdf

[Judas Jetski]

"sterile"? Really? The lyrics alone could cause an STD!

I kind of agree on the Pixies drums. They seem more "modern" to me than first-gen. punk drums do. But not in a bad way, not at all.

A lot depends on the specific intent of the musicians. If they're trying to sound like Dead Boys re-enactors, a Pixies drum sound isn't going to cut muster. And if they're doing the whole Exploited thing, a Pixies drum sound would be irrelevant. But I would definitely not rule out what I hear on Surfer Rosa for punk drums. Shoot, man, if the drums wind up sounding too sterile, let something else get sloppy!

[Judas Jetski]

I suggest reading these articles. They are about funk but I think the techniques would apply to punk. Besides all you are doing is replacing the f with a p

http://www.phobospeepl.dk/documents/shitty1.pdf
http://www.phobospeepl.dk/documents/shitty2.pdf

BTW, what an awesome couple of links. Thanks!