the new music format! 24 bit audio and DVD's for all?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

themagicmanmdt
george martin
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: home on the range

the new music format! 24 bit audio and DVD's for all?

Post by themagicmanmdt » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:34 am

I've long sensed it and hoped it would come -

a post on the older cd's popped it into my mind again -

how long do you think the transition will take?

will all CD/DVD players start playing a DVD audio disc?

can one burn a DVD audio disc? if so, how?

i'm personally thinking of releasing only 24bit along with vinyl for my personal singles -

viable?

how else do we start the phase out of CD, and start embracing DVD's as they become cheaper to assimilate into everything?
we are the village green
preservation society
god bless +6 tape
valves and serviceability

*chief tech and R&D shaman at shadow hills industries*

User avatar
JGriffin
zen recordist
Posts: 6739
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:44 pm
Location: criticizing globally, offending locally
Contact:

Post by JGriffin » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:57 am

Is DVD-audio even still a viable format? I ain't trying to be snarky, I honestly can't keep up with the changing formats.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno

All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
farview
tinnitus
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: St. Charles (chicago) IL
Contact:

Post by farview » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:44 pm

They tried that a long time ago. It didn't take.

The thing that you seem to be missing is the fact that physical formats are going away. People are listening to mp3s, which sound worse than CDs, because of the convienience. Ipods don't sound great, mp3s don't sound great, earbuds don't sound great, but that is what people are listening to.
It's because the general public really doesn't care about fidelity, much less things like smoother reverb tails...

People are listening to music while they are on the move, extra dynamic range will actually be a problem for people listening in the car, bus, train, etc... because the quiet stuff will fall below the ambient din. (try listening to the classical FM station in your car driving on the tollway)

Electricide
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2105
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:04 am
Location: phoenix

Post by Electricide » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:49 pm

but in a few years when music players are 200-500 gigs or more, you could put tons of songs on there in 24/41, or even 24/96. fidelity was the price you paid for download speeds and storage space. Both of those conditions will slowly but surely be optimized in the next few years. (storage faster than broadband speeds of course).

User avatar
farview
tinnitus
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: St. Charles (chicago) IL
Contact:

Post by farview » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Electricide wrote:but in a few years when music players are 200-500 gigs or more, you could put tons of songs on there in 24/41, or even 24/96. fidelity was the price you paid for download speeds and storage space. Both of those conditions will slowly but surely be optimized in the next few years. (storage faster than broadband speeds of course).
That's true, but you would still have to find a way to make people give a crap enough to buy into it.

Electricide
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2105
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:04 am
Location: phoenix

Post by Electricide » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:28 pm

buy what? I agree that physical delivery mediums are disappearing, at least to the degree where industry-wide investment in one isn't likely to happen on the scale of prior generations.

If you assume artists are still recording and storing their mixes at high resolution, the cost to them is the same whether they put mp3's or 24/882 files out for download. Delivery services might charge more because the files take up more space. But the portable device is becoming the center of both mobile AND home listening environments, so depending on the price I think people would opt for hi rez.

Of course if you're like most people and you're getting everything for free then the cost to you AND to the artist is the same whether it's hi rez or mp3.

User avatar
farview
tinnitus
Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: St. Charles (chicago) IL
Contact:

Post by farview » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:43 pm

I think you will find much more concern about fidelity on audio and recording forums than you will in the general public.

User avatar
@?,*???&?
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5804
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 4:36 pm
Location: Just left on the FM dial
Contact:

Re: the new music format! 24 bit audio and DVD's for all?

Post by @?,*???&? » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:59 pm

themagicmanmdt wrote:viable?
Totally. It's about hardware speed and capability. 24-bit/192KHz can be a reality, but its about data upload and download without a delivery format such a disc and without the constraints of uber slow internet and uber small storage devices.

The internet got choked by the Bush administration. The storage size and processor hold-up is chip manufacturing technology related. Until these processes get better or there's a major revolution in this technology, we are relegated to what we have. What is the average time for breakthroughs in hardware? Do the trends show it's 5-year cycles? I don't know, but I am sure those trends are out there to be gleaned.

My answer to your question would be 5 to 15 years to make it to high-resolution for the consumer.

Interesting to note that Columbia did tests with consumers in the late 1940's and the public responded they preferred audio with a severely restricted frequency response with 8KHz as the highest frequency as compared to full-frequency program material from 20Hz to 20KHz. That same argument could be made today when consumers flock to .mp3 as a preferred format. However today it's not about the 'sound' it's about the 'convenience'.

User avatar
JGriffin
zen recordist
Posts: 6739
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:44 pm
Location: criticizing globally, offending locally
Contact:

Re: the new music format! 24 bit audio and DVD's for all?

Post by JGriffin » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:15 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:
themagicmanmdt wrote:viable?
Totally. It's about hardware speed and capability. 24-bit/192KHz can be a reality, but its about data upload and download without a delivery format such a disc and without the constraints of uber slow internet and uber small storage devices.
Korea is going to have 10GB/sec download speeds within the year. They're not too far from that now. The USA is way behind.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

"Lots of people are nostalgic for analog. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." ? Brian Eno

All the DWLB music is at http://dwlb.bandcamp.com/

RefD
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:10 pm

Re: the new music format! 24 bit audio and DVD's for all?

Post by RefD » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:35 pm

dwlb wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:
themagicmanmdt wrote:viable?
Totally. It's about hardware speed and capability. 24-bit/192KHz can be a reality, but its about data upload and download without a delivery format such a disc and without the constraints of uber slow internet and uber small storage devices.
Korea is going to have 10GB/sec download speeds within the year. They're not too far from that now. The USA is way behind.
USA! USA! USA!

*wonders when it will become possible to afford heat in the wintertime again*
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist
Posts: 6273
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:24 pm

you are not kidding.

*wraps self in 45 blankets, goes broke anyway*

themagicmanmdt
george martin
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: home on the range

Post by themagicmanmdt » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:41 am

how did DVD audio fail?

i still feel there's about 20% of the population who can tell that 24 bit sounds better if you just sit them down and show them.

i intend on sitting them down and showing them! someone has to, right?

so, why cave in?


viva la 24bit revolution!
we are the village green
preservation society
god bless +6 tape
valves and serviceability

*chief tech and R&D shaman at shadow hills industries*

User avatar
0-it-hz
buyin' gear
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 3:01 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by 0-it-hz » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:55 am

DVD-A, SACD, HD-DVD. All dead. Very dead.

Check this.

DTS-HD can be put on a Blu-ray disc at 24/192 for stereo, 24/48 for up to 7.1 and goes down HDMI to a dts reciever. If the reciever is older or doesn't have HDMI than it streams the DTS core (which is compressed) or if it's an HDMI compatible dts decoder it will give you the whole shebang.

Backwards compatible and consumers actually want it because all the movies are coming out on blu-ray.

Any kind of special disc that takes a special player is not gonna do well, especially with physical media dying on the vine. But if you're looking for a fairly future-proof medium put it on a blu-ray... then there's a chance in hell that people can buy it and listen to it.

Also, most blu-ray players decode the audio to the analog outs if you don't want to deal with a decoder... and yes, they're spec'd for 24/192... but the converters are probably sound-blaster quality. Oh well.
Everything louder than everything else.

User avatar
losthighway
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
Contact:

Post by losthighway » Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:01 am

If there's any chance for a cross the board innovation it will be a file type and not a disc. I think software, and maybe portable players are more ready to accommodate a big change. So many people have integrated their computers in to their home listening anyways.

User avatar
Brett Siler
resurrected
Posts: 2469
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Evansville, IN
Contact:

Post by Brett Siler » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:40 pm

nah man.. The only physical copy that seems to stand the test of time is vinyl. Other that that it is all going digital. I like both formats so I embrace it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests