Oppinions - $350 or less cardioid sdc pairs

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kingmetal
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Oppinions - $350 or less cardioid sdc pairs

Post by kingmetal » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:49 pm

Short question: I'm looking to spend about $350 on a pair of SDCs specifically for acoutstic guitar micing. I'm looking at the following and would love feedback on any of them or any kind of reccommendations:

-A pair of Johly modded MXL 991s (I have the 991s already)
-Samson C02s (WAY under budget!)
-Studio Projects C4s (very flexible, as they are multi-cap)

Backstory:
I'm currently recording two artists who play acoustic guitar and sing in the same, small room live. I'm currently using a pair of DPA4061s to capture the direct guitar signals - whenever I can I tape them directly to the bodies of the guitars and I've had pretty good success, but one of my artists in particular plays a very "loose" style, often doesn't use a pick and I end up picking up a lot of hand noise. I don't want to influence his playing style at all, as a huge component of the success of my sessions with these guys is absolute transparency.

I mainly want SDCs over LDCs because I have an extremely small space to work with and I feel like SDCs would be easier to position. I don't have a lot of heavy duty mic stands. Please speak up if this thinking is way off base, and I will consider a pair of LDCs if they can be obtained for roughly this price range. My LDC selection is currently an AKG Perception 200 and a Rode NT1A which are both in use as vocal mics.

Also of note, I'm looking for a pair of Oktava mk-012s at this price and I haven't had much luck so far. Seems like they're closer to $500 for a pair. My co-worker has a pair of mc-012s that I will be borrowing and he claims he hasn't used in years, but I think I was a little too excited about them and now he seems hesitant to let them go (I offered him $350, he paid about $70. They only come with the cardioid heads).

Thanks in advance!

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Post by linus » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:55 pm

I have a joly modded Octava 219 (lg diaphram) and think his work is great.

To me the answer is simple:
Get your mics modded.

Done.
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Post by losthighway » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:56 pm

Sorry to further confuse your options, but there are a couple pairs of Shure KSM137's on Ebay right now.

I love those mics. Really flat response, good on acoustic guitar, snare drum, toms, auxiliary percussion, overheads. The only thing they don't have that the ksm141's have is they are only cardioid. Switchable pad -15 or -25 db. Shapable high pass filter. Just plain useful, utility mic.

BUT, I don't think your space, or a stand is good reason for discounting the idea of an LDC. Why let a stand that costs $30-50, inform your $500 purchase? Using any condenser microphone will reveal the limitations of your space more than dynamics, the size of the diaphragm seems to matter little, except perhaps the pickup pattern on SDCs is a little tighter. But that is splitting hairs.

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Post by kingmetal » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:34 pm

losthighway wrote:Sorry to further confuse your options, but there are a couple pairs of Shure KSM137's on Ebay right now.

I love those mics. Really flat response, good on acoustic guitar, snare drum, toms, auxiliary percussion, overheads. The only thing they don't have that the ksm141's have is they are only cardioid. Switchable pad -15 or -25 db. Shapable high pass filter. Just plain useful, utility mic.

BUT, I don't think your space, or a stand is good reason for discounting the idea of an LDC. Why let a stand that costs $30-50, inform your $500 purchase? Using any condenser microphone will reveal the limitations of your space more than dynamics, the size of the diaphragm seems to matter little, except perhaps the pickup pattern on SDCs is a little tighter. But that is splitting hairs.
Those Shures are tempting, but $500 is a little out of my price range at the moment.

Yeah now that I think of it, the stand / room size complaints really aren't valid. I'd like a tighter pickup, but I'm not experienced enough to know if SDCs are summarily tighter than LDCs in general.

I'm stuck in a weird place, where there is a hole in my mic closet that I need to fill quickly, but I don't want to spend money on something I'll stop using in a year. Money is pretty tight, and I'm trying to simultaneously afford mics for the sessions I'm doing and things like a hardware sampler for my own stuff, plus I'm putting the finishing touches on the normal state of my studio.

If anyone feels like talking me out of the price cap, please feel free.

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Post by losthighway » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:47 pm

Dude, I totally know where you're at. I go through these spells where I don't have much booked on my calendar for sessions and I feel dumb for making my last gear purchase. Then, other times my calendar starts filling up and I foresee some band set-ups that could really use something I don't have.

I have at least $500 mentally invested in construction for my studio and I just realized I hate the shit out of my monitors. I'm starting an album with a very awesome band in a week. I feel like my studio is going to be way better right after they finish their record. Oh well. Credit should not be indulged in.

But, back to you- many a wise person on here has prompted me not to buy something *easy* to attain, if I'm not going to like using it in a year. There are a lot of handy microphones in the $150-$500 range. Maybe you can do a session without a pair. Good acoustic guitar recordings happen often with just one mic.

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Post by ott0bot » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:47 pm

I have a pair of Studio Projects C4's and I'm extremely happy with them. I've used them as drum over heads and percussion overdubs, acoustic guitar, and even as a room mic with the omni capsule to record my band practice. The cardiod and omni capsules have a very different tone. The omni being a bit more colored IMO. They are pretty flexible and the roll off and 2 stage pad work well. Good frequency response and I find them to be pretty accurate at capturing the sound in general. Plus they have a nice case, wind screens, and an x/y stand adapter. I got a best offer deal on ebay for $280 shipped brand new and I have not regreted the purchase one bit.

If you want to hear them in action check out the myspace page of a band I recorded....On the songs "Lonely Night..." & "Devil Like Me" I used them as a spaced OH pair, plus I did cymbal over dubs with them on lonely night. Listen for the rooling splashes in the last part of the track. Keep in mind these are MP3's and the songs are unfinished and unmastered...but still pretty decent sound quality wise.

Here's the link:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =195769243


You could also try the Rode Nt-5. Then come in a set for around that price, but you have to buy the omni capsules seperately.

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Post by Brian » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:02 pm

JolyMod 991's hands down that's what you do don't do anything else.
The Shures will NOT sound as good or better straight outta the box.

Do yourself a big favor and straight up take the advice you solicited and don't be a poll-taker who doesn't listen to his own poll.

Pul the trigger already dammit!

What are you still here reading for, go NOW!
Harumph!

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kingmetal
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Post by kingmetal » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:09 pm

ott0bot wrote:I have a pair of Studio Projects C4's and I'm extremely happy with them. I've used them as drum over heads and percussion overdubs, acoustic guitar, and even as a room mic with the omni capsule to record my band practice. The cardiod and omni capsules have a very different tone. The omni being a bit more colored IMO. They are pretty flexible and the roll off and 2 stage pad work well. Good frequency response and I find them to be pretty accurate at capturing the sound in general. Plus they have a nice case, wind screens, and an x/y stand adapter. I got a best offer deal on ebay for $280 shipped brand new and I have not regreted the purchase one bit.

If you want to hear them in action check out the myspace page of a band I recorded....On the songs "Lonely Night..." & "Devil Like Me" I used them as a spaced OH pair, plus I did cymbal over dubs with them on lonely night. Listen for the rooling splashes in the last part of the track. Keep in mind these are MP3's and the songs are unfinished and unmastered...but still pretty decent sound quality wise.

Here's the link:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =195769243


You could also try the Rode Nt-5. Then come in a set for around that price, but you have to buy the omni capsules seperately.
Those C4s look better and better every time I look at them. Haven't heard a bad thing about them anywhere, and they seem to be a pretty ridiculous deal. So that's one vote for a mod, one vote for the C4s.

EDIT: Scratch! Two votes for the mods.

The mods are expensive, but will be done eventually. I have sworn to only have usable mics in my cabinet, so Johly will be getting my 990s and 991s over the course of the next year.

I may have found somebody who will sell me a pair of C4s for $200. If that comes through, I'll be pulling the trigger on them (it's just too good of a deal to pass up and would free some resources up for other things). If not, Johly is getting some 991s sooner than I had anticipated.

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Post by Michael_Joly » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:05 pm

Hey Kingmetal, sounds like you could use some help.

I just got a box of mics back from the road where they were doing shootout duty. I'd be willing to loan you some stuff. Sounds like you need SDCs - I think I've got some spare "Hidden '84 mods", a couple of "Ultimate 603 Mods" and some ribbons. Let me know what would be ideal for you. I'll box the stuff up and you can pay postage both ways.

I've done this a couple of times in the past. Its a small way of saying thanks to the community. Actually, I've been thinking of creating a more formal program where a box of mics could spend most of its time on the road helping out start-up / young-owner studios. I've got one of those DJ 12" record case dimond plate boxes. You can get a lot of mics in there.

So let me know when you need the stuff and for how long. best, M

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Post by kingmetal » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:16 pm

Michael_Joly wrote:Hey Kingmetal, sounds like you could use some help.

I just got a box of mics back from the road where they were doing shootout duty. I'd be willing to loan you some stuff. Sounds like you need SDCs - I think I've got some spare "Hidden '84 mods", a couple of "Ultimate 603 Mods" and some ribbons. Let me know what would be ideal for you. I'll box the stuff up and you can pay postage both ways.

I've done this a couple of times in the past. Its a small way of saying thanks to the community. Actually, I've been thinking of creating a more formal program where a box of mics could spend most of its time on the road helping out start-up / young-owner studios. I've got one of those DJ 12" record case dimond plate boxes. You can get a lot of mics in there.

So let me know when you need the stuff and for how long. best, M
I'm not a religious man, but just as I'm begining to doubt my $200 bid for a pair of C4s, I get this response and THEN I get outbid less than 5 minutes later! SOMETHING is pulling the strings.

I'll PM you and take you up on your amazing generous offer, Mr. Joly (apologies for spelling your name wrong earlier). I suddenly just got that "this is the right choice" twang in my gut, and I have a feeling I'm about to become very happy with a couple of my old mics.

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Post by Brian » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:52 pm

Brian wrote:JolyMod 991's hands down that's what you do don't do anything else.
The Shures will NOT sound as good or better straight outta the box.

Do yourself a big favor and straight up take the advice you solicited and don't be a poll-taker who doesn't listen to his own poll.

Pul the trigger already dammit!

What are you still here reading for, go NOW!
Are you STILL HERE?

Good grief man, ORDER THEM, TRUST ME.
Harumph!

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Post by Jeff White » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:05 am

I highly recommend getting a pair of Oktava MK-012s. Use them and save up for the Joly mods. They sound really nice stock (ran them like this for 7 or 8 years), But they are amazing modified by MJ. Michael took mine to another level in October and I want a second pair to take advantage of my RedHead caps.

I have seem the MK-012s on ebay for under $150 each with the cardioid caps. That's your budget. Then save up monthly for the mods and have them done.

My $.02,

Jeff
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Post by trodden » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:07 am

hurdy gurdy, joly modded 012 and ml-52... chosen over 6-7 other mics....

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Post by hopeless_opus » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:23 am

I say get the 991's modded. The PE mod will cost under $200 for both mics, and for $50 you can pick up a set of omni caps for them.

I have a pair of OktavaMod Mk-012's and they sound great, FWIW.

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Post by pixeltarian » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:31 am

Michael_Joly wrote:Hey Kingmetal, sounds like you could use some help.

I just got a box of mics back from the road where they were doing shootout duty. I'd be willing to loan you some stuff. Sounds like you need SDCs - I think I've got some spare "Hidden '84 mods", a couple of "Ultimate 603 Mods" and some ribbons. Let me know what would be ideal for you. I'll box the stuff up and you can pay postage both ways.

I've done this a couple of times in the past. Its a small way of saying thanks to the community. Actually, I've been thinking of creating a more formal program where a box of mics could spend most of its time on the road helping out start-up / young-owner studios. I've got one of those DJ 12" record case dimond plate boxes. You can get a lot of mics in there.

So let me know when you need the stuff and for how long. best, M
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that anytime you're thinking about loaning mics out I am available. I am but a poor college kid recording folks in his apartment...

also can I take my oktava 012 and somehow get just one more and have a matched pair a-la jolly mods?
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