Micro-Deals
* Major labels set-up shop regionally across the country- perhaps in regions akin to NACA.org
* Foster local and regional bands through financing start-up full-length album projects at $15K to $30K per project.
* Bands are booked only regionally with major label promotion to regional radio that focuses only locally in those regions. Local is the new national at radio with corporate radio failing through national programming and no internet/technology presence.
* Recording gets the benefit of a well-organized regional radio campaign administered by the major.
* Major label also distributes the product through their mechanism. Brick & Mortar is still the number one way to sell CDs these days and the Majors have a lock on that. If those stats on internet sales and downloads of both album and singles is for real from a few weeks back, then focusing on Brick & Mortar could be the answer. http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=62067 The best bands could benefit from major label involvement at a price everyone can afford and see a return on.
* College radio and Commercial radio could report to the same chart system with this. Doing away with or possibly combining Radio & Records and CMJ. Or perhaps a whole new system would get set up. With it, a band that charts well regionally, could grow into a 'national' act. This would allow the band to grow in their region and still reflect the area they are from. Some bands may never chart well enough to be a 'national' act. Certainly, some regional bands would not be ready for 'national' exposure but still be given the opportunity in their region.
* NARAS, CMA and others could get involved too featuring Best Regional Band/Artist awards on their respective Grammy and Country Music Awards programs and also eventually offer 'Best National Artist'.
* For the labels, there could a good realm of job-creation in this having to expand and set-up offices nationally in each of the 6 regions. The labels could back to the great domain of artist development and for not a huge investment, likely see a strong return.
* Deals could be a two-year term wherein the band has to remain intact for that period of time at which point the contract would come up for renewal. How the song does regionally charts-wise/sales-wise would have alot to do with what happens next.
What do you think?
The next thing: Micro-Deals
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;ivlunsdystf
- ghost haunting audio students
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1. sign unknown acts with no legal counsel to predatory deal.ysyrtypy wrote:So you want to un-invent the internet. What happens if the internet continues to exist and music can "leak" out of a given region this way?
2. uninvent INTARNET.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca
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;ivlunsdystf
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@?,*???&?
- on a wing and a prayer
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The majors can survive if they get an 'independent' foothold now.
Looking at the number of local and regional bands that don't have any money to record, this could be a great future scenario for them.
Studios could thrive, the bands could get the support they need in a manageable area.
No local band I've seen has any clue how to run a radio campaign OR book their own shows for profit.
We're talking about sustaining a business here.
None of you are interested in that?
Looking at the number of local and regional bands that don't have any money to record, this could be a great future scenario for them.
Studios could thrive, the bands could get the support they need in a manageable area.
No local band I've seen has any clue how to run a radio campaign OR book their own shows for profit.
We're talking about sustaining a business here.
None of you are interested in that?
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xhavepatiencex
- takin' a dinner break
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that is assuming bands are interested in being on the radio, I am not. I don't like bands on the radio, and I would like to like my own band. So I will pass on that@?,*???&? wrote:No local band I've seen has any clue how to run a radio campaign OR book their own shows for profit.
Yes, if a band cant produce some sort of profit by playing shows that should be a sign things are not moving in a positive direction.
Your model is missing some critical pieces. For instance distribution. Physical CDs are indeed a good model, but conventional distro was built for an era of few titles, and a need for "critical mass" of merchandise to command sufficient floor space to capture attention and sales. Imagine if car dealers could ship unsold inventory back to the factory for full credit - GM would have tanked ages ago! Fear of unsold product drives good merchandising decisions, and prevent over-exposure to speculation. The music retailer doesn't know this fear, because all of his/her content is on loan, able to be replaced or returned for full credit.
Without a total overhaul, distro as it exists will drag the entire industry into oblivion. Touch and Go's distro was the canary in the coal mine. The system itself is rotten to the core. The problem is, any new system you propose will piss off retailers, especially the ones that sell the most product. They're addicted to this terrible model too. So even if the above is 100% right on, you still wind up with labels running a business model closer to loan-sharking/gambling operation than a sustainable manufacturing/IP business. Everything is hostage to the "last mile" (the telephony term referring to the connection from local switch to each consumer's home).
The "last mile problem" is much broader than the music industry. Solutions on the table are truly awful: subscriptions, compulsory fees distributed by a PRO, etc - all of these models are warped to the benefit of the biggest players, at the expense of the individual artist, who has no voice whatsoever. This lack of voice is driving a lot of the political debates to extreme, diametrically opposing positions.
Your idea has some merit, but isn't a solution because the infrastructure of the industry, including standard practices and models, are entirely broken. Without infrastructure and norms, you're left with Fear Uncertainty and Doubt, exploitable by the loudest guy in the room. I don't think Rick Rubin means to be exploitive when he advances subscription models that work wonderfully for himself and his peers, but the underlying premise is unworkable in a world without trust and good faith (i.e. our world and industry).
Basically you've got some ideas that address small parts of the problems we face in a scatter-shot manner. It may seem holistic to you, but it misses entire markets, and doesn't address the existing retail market at all.
Without a total overhaul, distro as it exists will drag the entire industry into oblivion. Touch and Go's distro was the canary in the coal mine. The system itself is rotten to the core. The problem is, any new system you propose will piss off retailers, especially the ones that sell the most product. They're addicted to this terrible model too. So even if the above is 100% right on, you still wind up with labels running a business model closer to loan-sharking/gambling operation than a sustainable manufacturing/IP business. Everything is hostage to the "last mile" (the telephony term referring to the connection from local switch to each consumer's home).
The "last mile problem" is much broader than the music industry. Solutions on the table are truly awful: subscriptions, compulsory fees distributed by a PRO, etc - all of these models are warped to the benefit of the biggest players, at the expense of the individual artist, who has no voice whatsoever. This lack of voice is driving a lot of the political debates to extreme, diametrically opposing positions.
Your idea has some merit, but isn't a solution because the infrastructure of the industry, including standard practices and models, are entirely broken. Without infrastructure and norms, you're left with Fear Uncertainty and Doubt, exploitable by the loudest guy in the room. I don't think Rick Rubin means to be exploitive when he advances subscription models that work wonderfully for himself and his peers, but the underlying premise is unworkable in a world without trust and good faith (i.e. our world and industry).
Basically you've got some ideas that address small parts of the problems we face in a scatter-shot manner. It may seem holistic to you, but it misses entire markets, and doesn't address the existing retail market at all.
Dave Davis
bands.theallnightparty.com
bands.theallnightparty.com
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@?,*???&?
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What we need is 'ACTIVE' not passive distribution. Music distribution is a passive business. No more in-stores, nearly everything has to be ordered, it's archaic and habitually formed by 'national' corporate bean-counters. By virtue of downsizing the industry to what would equate to 6 little industries this could work. There is too much being made, but not distributed and not being heard other than by very few.daved wrote:Your model is missing some critical pieces. For instance distribution. Physical CDs are indeed a good model, but conventional distro was built for an era of few titles, and a need for "critical mass" of merchandise to command sufficient floor space to capture attention and sales. Imagine if car dealers could ship unsold inventory back to the factory for full credit - GM would have tanked ages ago! Fear of unsold product drives good merchandising decisions, and prevent over-exposure to speculation. The music retailer doesn't know this fear, because all of his/her content is on loan, able to be replaced or returned for full credit.
Without a total overhaul, distro as it exists will drag the entire industry into oblivion. Touch and Go's distro was the canary in the coal mine. The system itself is rotten to the core. The problem is, any new system you propose will piss off retailers, especially the ones that sell the most product. They're addicted to this terrible model too. So even if the above is 100% right on, you still wind up with labels running a business model closer to loan-sharking/gambling operation than a sustainable manufacturing/IP business. Everything is hostage to the "last mile" (the telephony term referring to the connection from local switch to each consumer's home).
The "last mile problem" is much broader than the music industry. Solutions on the table are truly awful: subscriptions, compulsory fees distributed by a PRO, etc - all of these models are warped to the benefit of the biggest players, at the expense of the individual artist, who has no voice whatsoever. This lack of voice is driving a lot of the political debates to extreme, diametrically opposing positions.
Your idea has some merit, but isn't a solution because the infrastructure of the industry, including standard practices and models, are entirely broken. Without infrastructure and norms, you're left with Fear Uncertainty and Doubt, exploitable by the loudest guy in the room. I don't think Rick Rubin means to be exploitive when he advances subscription models that work wonderfully for himself and his peers, but the underlying premise is unworkable in a world without trust and good faith (i.e. our world and industry).
Basically you've got some ideas that address small parts of the problems we face in a scatter-shot manner. It may seem holistic to you, but it misses entire markets, and doesn't address the existing retail market at all.
Independent artists today have the option of internet distribution and little else. They certainly will never get in regular rotation on corporate radio the way it stands and for the record labels, involvement on a local level could help their model.
We all know records can get made more cheaply today, this allows everyone to benefit from that. I've seen far too many bands in the past several NOT be able to make a record because they still can't afford what it takes to make great product. This helps them out to.
Perhaps the deals would need to have some 360 deal element to ensure everyone benefits.
This concept would take completely re-organizing the system in place. Like I stated, this could be a hiring NOT firing boon for the industry. Finally.
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littlesongs
- pushin' record
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Microcosms
* Independent labels set-up shop regionally across the country -- often in regions where the genre was born and the talent developed -- like Detroit, New Orleans, Chicago, Memphis, New York, Los Angeles and Nashville.
* Indies foster local and regional bands through pressing a series of popular singles that lead to financing start-up full-length album projects and national tours.
* Bands are booked only regionally with strong label promotion to local and regional radio that focuses on large and small communities in those regions. Local radio is very popular. Corporate radio represents nothing but national programming, and no technology presence serves the needs or wants of the locals as well as independently owned media.
* Recording gets the benefit of a well-organized regional radio campaign that includes interviews, giveaways, in studio performances and whatever other sort of favors the broadcasters demand. Locally owned stations often go the extra mile to ensure that revenue increases for everyone involved, so one hand is washing the other and both backs are scratched.
* Once the hard work of breaking and establishing the act is through, a Major label barges in and distributes the proven product through their mechanism with little or no compensation to the Indie. Local shops often carry independent releases and regional genres, but not big chains. Brick & Mortar is still the number one way to sell physical product and the Majors have a national lock on that. Once lured away by money and the promise of more, the best bands and talents are often left ruined by major label involvement and the excesses that follow. Repackaged collections go on for decades at a price everyone can afford and many artists never see a dime.
* College radio airplay impact is fairly limited, but still notable. Commercial radio breaks a new act with the right song and larger and larger enticements. All stations report to the same chart systems for their target audience and genre, but many publish a weekly regional chart in the newspaper too. Often, a band that charts well regionally could grow into a 'national' act. This would allow the band to grow in their region and still reflect the area they are from and their roots. Some bands may never chart well enough to be a 'national' act, but are established for a lifetime. Certainly, some regional bands would not be ready for 'national' exposure but still be given the opportunity in their region.
* Squares like the Grammy committee and Country Music Awards programs make decisions based on politics and sales, handing out trophies for 'Best National Artist' and the like to folks who may not have won based on merit or creativity. The public is largely indifferent to these kinds of accolades and focus on the music they like.
* For the Indie labels, there is job-creation as they expand and set-up offices regionally. The labels back a great deal of artist development and for a small investment, likely see a strong return. By strengthening ties between all the different regional elements -- radio, nightclubs, record stores, dance halls, artists, and studios -- the foundation is laid for the future. The long term impact is blunted when the best acts are removed from the equation.
* Indie deals were struck that launched lifelong careers, but the national market was tightly controlled and drawn along lines of genre, class and race. Once lured away by Major labels, many talented acts were used up and thrown away. By taking the bread and butter from the Indie labels, eventually the regional powerhouses fell silent or were gobbled up by larger companies. The greatest losers in the equation were the ones who worked the hardest.
What do I think?
What I described (by paraphrasing Jeff) sounds just like the brief heyday for regional Indies in the 50s and 60s. It reads like the stories of Motown, Stax, Chess, Hi, Sun, Atlantic, Elektra and dozens of other great Indie labels. They thrived for a short period and expanded beyond regional markets in spite of an environment of corporate control. I would not suggest we return to the more untoward practices of the past. I also do not deny that many things have changed, but the overall idea of a regional Indie expanding to a national market still works. The neat thing about today is that one can also go global.
With the big bankruptcies and stock slides, we are witnessing collapse of large broadcast empires. The iron grip of national programming is slipping. However, the market is weak and it could be a long time before we see single station radio ownership as the norm again. The concept of the nationally hyped multi-media big budget production may be heading the way of the dodo bird. What remains could be a sea of underfunded pablum, rather than a chorus of new voices. If there is no large money to be made, the days of purely market driven artistic expression are short and numbered, but they will squeeze that turnip for every ounce of plasma before they finally die off. Even now, radio saturation eventually makes people sick of you, not excited by you. It is all toxic to your career on some level unless you stay on the left end of the dial.
In my opinion, the best businesses serve the needs of a smaller group of people with a higher quality product. A large business with stockholders cannot change and evolve with the same ease and pace of an efficient and small operation. There is great contrast between all or nothing multimillion dollar gambles and setting realistic long term goals for solid releases. With the rise of the internet, and the ability of local artists to reach global audiences, small Indies have a far better chance of success than the lumbering dinosaurs. Let the Majors die. Force them to sell their immense catalogs back to the artists at a loss. Tear down the shuttered Twinkie plant, clear the lot, put in some trees and open a corner pastry shop.
* Independent labels set-up shop regionally across the country -- often in regions where the genre was born and the talent developed -- like Detroit, New Orleans, Chicago, Memphis, New York, Los Angeles and Nashville.
* Indies foster local and regional bands through pressing a series of popular singles that lead to financing start-up full-length album projects and national tours.
* Bands are booked only regionally with strong label promotion to local and regional radio that focuses on large and small communities in those regions. Local radio is very popular. Corporate radio represents nothing but national programming, and no technology presence serves the needs or wants of the locals as well as independently owned media.
* Recording gets the benefit of a well-organized regional radio campaign that includes interviews, giveaways, in studio performances and whatever other sort of favors the broadcasters demand. Locally owned stations often go the extra mile to ensure that revenue increases for everyone involved, so one hand is washing the other and both backs are scratched.
* Once the hard work of breaking and establishing the act is through, a Major label barges in and distributes the proven product through their mechanism with little or no compensation to the Indie. Local shops often carry independent releases and regional genres, but not big chains. Brick & Mortar is still the number one way to sell physical product and the Majors have a national lock on that. Once lured away by money and the promise of more, the best bands and talents are often left ruined by major label involvement and the excesses that follow. Repackaged collections go on for decades at a price everyone can afford and many artists never see a dime.
* College radio airplay impact is fairly limited, but still notable. Commercial radio breaks a new act with the right song and larger and larger enticements. All stations report to the same chart systems for their target audience and genre, but many publish a weekly regional chart in the newspaper too. Often, a band that charts well regionally could grow into a 'national' act. This would allow the band to grow in their region and still reflect the area they are from and their roots. Some bands may never chart well enough to be a 'national' act, but are established for a lifetime. Certainly, some regional bands would not be ready for 'national' exposure but still be given the opportunity in their region.
* Squares like the Grammy committee and Country Music Awards programs make decisions based on politics and sales, handing out trophies for 'Best National Artist' and the like to folks who may not have won based on merit or creativity. The public is largely indifferent to these kinds of accolades and focus on the music they like.
* For the Indie labels, there is job-creation as they expand and set-up offices regionally. The labels back a great deal of artist development and for a small investment, likely see a strong return. By strengthening ties between all the different regional elements -- radio, nightclubs, record stores, dance halls, artists, and studios -- the foundation is laid for the future. The long term impact is blunted when the best acts are removed from the equation.
* Indie deals were struck that launched lifelong careers, but the national market was tightly controlled and drawn along lines of genre, class and race. Once lured away by Major labels, many talented acts were used up and thrown away. By taking the bread and butter from the Indie labels, eventually the regional powerhouses fell silent or were gobbled up by larger companies. The greatest losers in the equation were the ones who worked the hardest.
What do I think?
What I described (by paraphrasing Jeff) sounds just like the brief heyday for regional Indies in the 50s and 60s. It reads like the stories of Motown, Stax, Chess, Hi, Sun, Atlantic, Elektra and dozens of other great Indie labels. They thrived for a short period and expanded beyond regional markets in spite of an environment of corporate control. I would not suggest we return to the more untoward practices of the past. I also do not deny that many things have changed, but the overall idea of a regional Indie expanding to a national market still works. The neat thing about today is that one can also go global.
With the big bankruptcies and stock slides, we are witnessing collapse of large broadcast empires. The iron grip of national programming is slipping. However, the market is weak and it could be a long time before we see single station radio ownership as the norm again. The concept of the nationally hyped multi-media big budget production may be heading the way of the dodo bird. What remains could be a sea of underfunded pablum, rather than a chorus of new voices. If there is no large money to be made, the days of purely market driven artistic expression are short and numbered, but they will squeeze that turnip for every ounce of plasma before they finally die off. Even now, radio saturation eventually makes people sick of you, not excited by you. It is all toxic to your career on some level unless you stay on the left end of the dial.
In my opinion, the best businesses serve the needs of a smaller group of people with a higher quality product. A large business with stockholders cannot change and evolve with the same ease and pace of an efficient and small operation. There is great contrast between all or nothing multimillion dollar gambles and setting realistic long term goals for solid releases. With the rise of the internet, and the ability of local artists to reach global audiences, small Indies have a far better chance of success than the lumbering dinosaurs. Let the Majors die. Force them to sell their immense catalogs back to the artists at a loss. Tear down the shuttered Twinkie plant, clear the lot, put in some trees and open a corner pastry shop.
Last edited by littlesongs on Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:41 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Gentleman Jim
- buyin' a studio
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Whenever I speak with a band I always say that they should concentrate on one geographic area instead of trying to tour the country when nobody cares.
However, rather than trying to retool multiple industries, you could be doing this for yourself right now. You have a record label, a recording studio, and you do booking. Why worry about what you think Sony/BMG should do? Unless of course, you're a stockholder.
You are conveniently noting the parts of the financial puzzle that recommend your scenario, (lowering the variable costs involved with national promotion), while ignoring the increase in fixed costs, (6 regional offices that would have to be opened, a wave of hiring to man those new offices).
And assuming that 6 regional bands would replace 1 national band, is there a savings realized in your recording budget? This is much more your area of knowledge than mine, but it seems like those 6 bands' combined budgets would range from $60,000 to $180,000. What's the common recording budget for a national act these days?
Perhaps the solution for major labels is to sign fewer artists, period. Be more selective about who gets to be on the label. I know from my outdated experience that there used to be plenty of bands signed to labels that nobody at the label cared about. Since the number of releases tracked by the RIAA has only increased, I tend to think this is still the case.
Can I sit in on the meeting where you blithely tell Radio & Records and CMJ that they're merging? I'd love to see how that plays out.
Ultimately, I think that what you have is a successful model for an independent record label from 1956 to 1972. I don't know whether it would work now because there's nobody who would resist the internet, which would make your regional label international.
However, rather than trying to retool multiple industries, you could be doing this for yourself right now. You have a record label, a recording studio, and you do booking. Why worry about what you think Sony/BMG should do? Unless of course, you're a stockholder.
You are conveniently noting the parts of the financial puzzle that recommend your scenario, (lowering the variable costs involved with national promotion), while ignoring the increase in fixed costs, (6 regional offices that would have to be opened, a wave of hiring to man those new offices).
And assuming that 6 regional bands would replace 1 national band, is there a savings realized in your recording budget? This is much more your area of knowledge than mine, but it seems like those 6 bands' combined budgets would range from $60,000 to $180,000. What's the common recording budget for a national act these days?
Perhaps the solution for major labels is to sign fewer artists, period. Be more selective about who gets to be on the label. I know from my outdated experience that there used to be plenty of bands signed to labels that nobody at the label cared about. Since the number of releases tracked by the RIAA has only increased, I tend to think this is still the case.
Can I sit in on the meeting where you blithely tell Radio & Records and CMJ that they're merging? I'd love to see how that plays out.
Ultimately, I think that what you have is a successful model for an independent record label from 1956 to 1972. I don't know whether it would work now because there's nobody who would resist the internet, which would make your regional label international.
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;ivlunsdystf
- ghost haunting audio students
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Say if you were successful in overhauling an entire industry which already has multiple competing entities; now suppose it is 2011 and we have record labels organized into 6 regional offices and so forth, and they have sunken untold millions into hiring new personnel to run all these offices. What would happen next? Lessee. Uh, oh, here, I know: The people in charge of these 6-pronged organizations would go looking for ways to cut costs and before long would have a brilliant idea: "Hey, let's merge our six redundant offices into one big office! That could save us upwards of 80% of our overhead!"
Which is kind of what already happened between 1950 and 1980.
Then there is still the pesky issue of the internet. What happens if a band is so awesome that people outside its region begin to hear and enjoy their stuff? Regional label head: are you going to make them stay in their region until their contractual 2 years have elapsed?
Okay, with that aside, let us cast our gaze onto the ways in which bands actually make it in this intriguing new world. http://hypem.com/ might be a good place to start. Fans blog about bands; good/well-known bloggers feed off of lesser-known blogs, and the really bitchen stuff actually gets noticed by Pitchfork. If Pitchfork gives you a review of better than 7 or so, you are off to the races. As far as I know, Pitchfork isn't accepting payola (although as their power becomes more entrenched I suppose they will start, if they haven't started already)
That is the world we live in.
Which is kind of what already happened between 1950 and 1980.
Then there is still the pesky issue of the internet. What happens if a band is so awesome that people outside its region begin to hear and enjoy their stuff? Regional label head: are you going to make them stay in their region until their contractual 2 years have elapsed?
Okay, with that aside, let us cast our gaze onto the ways in which bands actually make it in this intriguing new world. http://hypem.com/ might be a good place to start. Fans blog about bands; good/well-known bloggers feed off of lesser-known blogs, and the really bitchen stuff actually gets noticed by Pitchfork. If Pitchfork gives you a review of better than 7 or so, you are off to the races. As far as I know, Pitchfork isn't accepting payola (although as their power becomes more entrenched I suppose they will start, if they haven't started already)
That is the world we live in.
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Brian
- resurrected
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What does a CD have ha's suerior to MP3's,?
Sound quality but just barely with overcompresed recordings.
What does an MP3 have that's superior to a CD"
Portability, scalability.
Both formats sound alike in the best case scenario, so no gain.
There is no superior listening format to deliver to customer to listen to, enter, VIDEOs.
They suck and are a snoozefest soon after, so, the boredom ensues.
The model proposed bares too much resemblance to the old model, that never worked in a better design because it was never adhered to.
The lack of ethics by the current crop of Label peeps and the lack of ethics b the majority of cubicle inmates turned "artist" who should go back to their cubicles is what is going to keep any solution from working.
The day of the "holy scumbag label guy" is OVER!
Sound quality but just barely with overcompresed recordings.
What does an MP3 have that's superior to a CD"
Portability, scalability.
Both formats sound alike in the best case scenario, so no gain.
There is no superior listening format to deliver to customer to listen to, enter, VIDEOs.
They suck and are a snoozefest soon after, so, the boredom ensues.
The model proposed bares too much resemblance to the old model, that never worked in a better design because it was never adhered to.
The lack of ethics by the current crop of Label peeps and the lack of ethics b the majority of cubicle inmates turned "artist" who should go back to their cubicles is what is going to keep any solution from working.
The day of the "holy scumbag label guy" is OVER!
Harumph!
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;ivlunsdystf
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