Riding the master fader

mcsquishytooshy · Post by **mcsquishytooshy** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:20 pm

A band I'm mixing wanted their songs to get quieter during quiet parts and and louder during big parts, so I subtly rode the master fader during the mix and we all loved it to death. The band said it was like listening to their songs for the first time! IISGIIG, right?

So, my question is, how is this going to affect mastering? Anything else I need to worry about? I'm only nervous cause it's the first time I've done this.

Artifex · Post by **Artifex** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:21 pm

Sounds like they need to learn to play with dynamics?

Aquaman · Post by **Aquaman** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:49 am

Pffft, don't pay any attention to Artie, that's a solid gold mixing technique.

Just make sure your mastering guy is aware that the master level changes are intentional so he or she doesn't compensate for them and even things out. (Not that any decent mastering engineer would do so, of course.)

mscottweber · Post by **mscottweber** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:58 am

If it is a pretty subtle riding, like aguaman said, I would be afraid that the mastering would level it back out.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:02 am

I do it all the time. It's definitely not a substitute for playing quieter when the music should sound like it was played quieter, but it can be a nice way to give a certain section of the song a bit more "oomf" when it kicks in. The only thing to worry about in mastering is that the increase in volume on those sections doesn't cause any of the buss compression to go overboard. But I find that it can be very effective to bring the volume down just a little bit in, say, the verses of a song before kicking it back up a bit for the choruses or the bridge or the last chorus or whatever.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

mcsquishytooshy · Post by **mcsquishytooshy** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:37 am

AWESOME.
Thanks y'all.

Yeah, I definitely can't tell a band to play quieter if I'm just mixing them.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:22 pm

Yeah....it's definately easier to keep track of than individual track automation on a DAW and easier to pull off on an analog mix. And as long as you do the fade with finesse it can sound great.

But i would say the group playing louder/quiter is more pleasing to me and it generally sounds a bit more natural. An instrument played quiter has a different effect than turning down an instrument being played loudly. This is true especailly on drums. But heck....if you like it and the band likes it, thats what is important

recall · Post by **recall** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:55 am

I have a feeling this technique has alot to do with the "exlosion into the chrous" technique that all these CLA/TLA records on the radio. Very effective if not the genre I'm involved in. Its a fader right? - its meant to be moved.

mcsquishytooshy · Post by **mcsquishytooshy** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:59 am

I have a feeling this technique has alot to do with the "exlosion into the chrous" technique that all these CLA/TLA records on the radio. Very effective if not the genre I'm involved in. Its a fader right? - its meant to be moved.

I have a very basic understanding of this post, but as a whole, I'm completely lost.

recall · Post by **recall** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:30 pm

Hey, sorry man. There are these brothers called Chris and Tom Lord-Alge (CLA/TLA) They are big time rock/pop mix engineers. Every time you liste nto one of their mixes on the radio the chorus seems to "explode" into life. I reckon they boost the master fader a little at transitions in the song to keep the excitement.

dave-G · Post by **dave-G** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:08 pm

msweber wrote:If it is a pretty subtle riding, like aguaman said, I would be afraid that the mastering would level it back out.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. It's not much more of an issue in that regard than if the performance dynamics ebbed and flowed with the verse/chorus structure in a more exaggerated way, or if individual/group automation in the mix combined to do the same thing. Overall, I think subtle rides on the master fader can be very effective.

-dave

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:14 am

Boing

What a great idea.

I would never have thought to do that.

That's what I love about this board.

Marc Alan Goodman · Post by **Marc Alan Goodman** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:53 pm

I've done it a million times, particularly in songs where the band seemed to lack dynamics.

As an important note: A master fader is just an attenuator, and because of that will affect the tone. On my API 1608 I notice that the track sounds significantly more closed and a starts to loose some aggressiveness in the upper midrange when I pull back on the master fader. However i've been able to use that to my advantage on a number of occasions as well, when things needed to feel a little more encroached upon.

Also, it's worth checking out the fader in advance if it's not your usual board. I remember on the auditronics we used to have at Studio G the left/right tracking on the master fader was completely off. With small changes you may not notice it, but it's possible that even a small change in the master fader would cause differences in the left/right balance that will become much more perceptible in mastering.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:30 am

I'll sometimes pull the master fade back a bit if I like how the tracks are hitting the various bus compressors, and the 2-mix comp, but I fear I'll get unwanted tape compression/distortion on the 2-track. I should probably ride it more often than I do...

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:48 am

Definitely fair game to ride the whole mix for dramatic effect.

Biggest caution is how this may effect both any master bus compression, and also the mastering compression. Sometimes this results in the loud parts noticeably squishing/crushing in a not good way from running suddenly way up over the compression threshold, and/or the quiet parts sounding comparatively loose and not getting as much glue and love from the compression.

Some solutions: master buss compressor pre to master fader. Or use the output gain knob of the master buss comp as your "final master" fader for purposes of this "goosing" approach. The compression vibe stays more constant that way.

Or, do the gain goosing of sections in the final mastering.

Or, separate mixes for the quiet and loud parts of the song, compression optimized for each. Stitch that together for the final mix.

Or, the method of 2 bus compressors, 1st one in parallel and optimized for the quiet sections, 2nd one in series/thru and set for the loud sections. There was a good thread on that some months back.

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Riding the master fader

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