the process, show and tell

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RefD
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Post by RefD » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:00 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:lemme ax you guys this: how do you go about changing up your normal shit?
alter the instruments (remove a drum, get rid of a cymbal, go direct with guitar) or instrumentation (use synth bass or play a DIed acoustic/electric thru a pitch transposer instead of actual bass guitar) in some way.

move things around, set artificial limits on what you will allow, throw out the tried and true, play something you think is awful and then try to make it NOT awful by what you surround it with in the arrangement, revisit ideas you threw away long ago...and so on.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

RefD
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Post by RefD » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:21 pm

oh hey, don't forget oblique strategy number two: "Don't be frightened of clich?s."
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

MoreSpaceEcho
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:49 am

the older i get, the happier i am to embrace cliches. i'm just tired of mine.

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Post by mjau » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:04 am

I've gone from taking all mic's down and re-setting up every time, to leaving everything in place, not worrying as much about "perfect" mic placement, and recording as much as possible at the same time, even in my small (but well-treated) space.

Lately, that's meant:
kick drum: sennheiser e602 > JLM 99v
snare: shure sm57 > Altec 1589b
overheads (recorderman or ORTF): 2x oktava mc012's > 2x JLM 990
guitar: beyer m69 > JLM 99v
bass: shure sm7 > HHb Radius 50
nord lead: DI
glockenspeil/shakers/bells/etc: oktava mc012 > small behri mixer
sampler: really shitty fostex dynamic > behri mixer

I play with two guys. They arrive, usually 20 minutes late, and then we drink a beer. Then we start making sounds - usually guitar, bass and drums at first. The drummer tweaks his sampler. I mess with the synth. The guitarist turns knobs on the delay pedal. Two hours later, I've got two hours of music recorded, and find the really cool three or ten minute stretch that worked best, edit it out, apply a touch of eq and whatnot, and call it a day. Generally leave the mistakes in if they aren't too egregious. Rarely, we might do an overdub or two after the fact. You can hear it here.

RefD
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Post by RefD » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:53 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:the older i get, the happier i am to embrace cliches. i'm just tired of mine.
i know the feeling.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

kayagum
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Post by kayagum » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:29 am

The current workflow experiment for me will be starting in a week or two. I'm setting up a splitter so that I can record full band rehearsal runthroughs... I will be curious to see how usable those recordings will be, both for composition and possibly even starting with those tracks.

The fun part is that all of the instruments (including amps and practice V-drums) will be recorded DI, which will mean no bleed. Depending on how well they sound, we can either keep the tracks or at the very least have really usable scratch/guide tracks. Vocals will still be on mics (obviously), but we can always replace or overdub if they're not up to par.

I have no sonic problem using DI tracks- I used them all the time for my theater design gigs. What I don't want is programmed beats and tempos that sound like or are actually triggered by computers and robots. Even when composing solo, I don't want to use a scratch percussion track until I know where the song is going.

blackmajik2021
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Post by blackmajik2021 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:04 am

MY TEN STEP PROGRAM

1) record a riff on any instrument.
2) loop riff
3) add a beat (to use as a click)
4) re record loop
5) add anywhere from 1-30 layers of other instruments as loops or non-loops
6) sing a melody with nonsensical words
7) pace around room rewriting melody to something that makes sense
8) record vocals
9) mix for 6 hours
10)sleep

allyouneedisears
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Post by allyouneedisears » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:28 am

More. 8)

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Post by Brian » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:12 am

If it's with the XXXX band,
we used to track live to DAT in the big room at Montana in NYC, then take it to the apt. dump it to 8 track reel and add overdubs and mix.
Examples of his are on my site.

If it's just me alone,
I just record what ever comes up first and see if there is a way to make it work or I'll go ahead and arrange it, put up a click or not, hum the tune in order as I lay down drums, and track the rest. OR I'll put up a click or not and track whatever is best developed to preserve the vibe while I'm tracking what's left.
Sometimes I just get what ever I can and hack it up later.

I need an assistant to push the buttons even though I have a BRC by the drums and the rest I track near the board and racks. Sure would make my playing smoother.
I think I'll hook up a stomp pedal for now..
Harumph!

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process

Post by Mikey V » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:16 pm

when i had a digital recorder i would spend several hours programming sounds on korg wavestation with the sustain pedal on and using keymaps to spread out sounds and organize things like loops and noises onto individual keys (usually the lowest few on the synth). while i was programming i would get a rough sketch of the song that i could improvise around. then i'd turn on the metronome and recording usually no more than three takes. then i'd snyc up my sampler (korg es-1) and create a loop right at the moment the inspiration would hit and have that loop until i felt there needed to be a change and then change it. it was a process that was inspired by some experimental djs around philly that i used to go see before the venue closed down and it's cool because a lot of stuff would happen unintentionally that sounded intentional, or at least not completely random.
those buttons down need pushing

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Flight Feathers
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Post by Flight Feathers » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:14 pm

cool post!

a lot of times i'll pick up the guitar while i'm working, and if a chord progression and melody sound interesting, i'll record it on my phone. otherwise i'll forget it instantly. then come back to it when i have time.

lately i've been working on my old Tascam 488 8 track tape machine for demoing. I have it set up in the live room. the work flow is so quick, just plug in a mic, and plop it in front of whatever instrument i need. it is so much faster than running between the live room and control room for each track, futzing with DAW, getting levels, etc.

the one thing i've been doing is forcing myself to see an idea through. i'm very quick to dismiss ideas as dumb, so i make myself sit there and finish the idea into a working demo. it might turn into something cool, you never know. and if it stays dumb, so what. and i make myself write lyrics. i hate writing lyrics and will let myself get distracted by anything to avoid doing it. so i just sit there and write stuff down until there is enough to flesh out the demo. there may be something worth holding onto, maybe not.

there is a video of what it looks like when i record a song by myself on my website, the second video here: http://flightfeathers.net/videos/
5D Studios <-- my OLD studio
Flight Feathers <-- my band

Mikey V
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Post by Mikey V » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:33 pm

i love the whole seeing it through to the end thing and not caring if it's bad or good because it is true you really never do know what will come of it and you're also getting something out no matter what it is and keeping an open mind. thanks for sharing the videos on your process, nice studio!!
those buttons down need pushing

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Dan Phelps
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Post by Dan Phelps » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:30 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: lemme ax you guys this: how do you go about changing up your normal shit?
1. Change your instrument options...different drums, put a really different sounding snare where you rack tom is, no hi-hats, no cymbals, hold a shaker or a tambourine, or something in your hands while you play, etc... If the drums are muffled, unmuffle them...if they are wide open, put a towel on them. Let up left-handed. Get weird. Pick a fight with yourself by changing your sound sources.

2. Inundate your brain with un-related or contradictory musical input. Doing a gentle folk record? Listen to a lot Fela Kuti or something...fill your brain with it for a few hours or days and then go back to what you are working on and record the first thing you do. I'm not saying that you should make yourself listen to a bunch of music that you don't like - it should be stuff that you enjoy or has an appealing quality. It helps me to listen to stuff that is NOT in the same vein of what I am making...it keeps it fresh.

3. Pretend to be some one else, i.e., I am a middle school kid who is just learning to play but loves it, or I'm a 60 year old session guy from Memphis...

4. Do something recording wise that you can hear while you are tracking (compression, delay, EQ...filters...synthesis) and see what happens. Sometimes compression or distortion bring out subtleties or overtones that help me find a hidden melody in the drums. Filters or synths can react in weird and surprising ways ("When I hit the rack tom, it goes WOWOWOWOW.").

Basically, if I'm stuck, I do whatever I can to get out of my head, including going to a Matinee or reading a book. But mostly it's about changing my options and getting out of my head.

And sometimes I still come back to the things I always do, because some times they feel right.

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Post by Mikey V » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:15 pm

yeah experimenting and buying new gear (especially with electronic instruments like synths) has always helped to re-inspire me. also, thinking: "what haven't i done yet?" helps. although as i get older that question gets harder to answer.
those buttons down need pushing

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jgimbel
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Post by jgimbel » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:03 am

Great post, Dan Phelps.

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:lemme ax you guys this: how do you go about changing up your normal shit?
I've found, initially with graphic design which I went to school for, but now just as much or moreso with music that sometimes the best, or at the very least good, interesting results can come from taking two things that don't traditionally fit together and working out how to get them to work together. Strange example from the design world, I had a typeface design client who wanted a font that was "alien meets zombie" (clearly not designing the next Helvetica, but it was a serious project nonetheless). I spent time thinking about and researching the connotations of each, and found that "alien" tends to connote clean, futuristic, digital, geometric shapes, while "zombie" brings to mind decay, words being scratched, etc. Both have their own postures to them, and working out how to bring two things that are essentially opposites (even if they are both horror movie themes) together. Sometimes the place your creative stamp comes out is not in coming up with some totally new idea but in finding a solution to a problem.

Specifically in response to creating drum parts, I didn't originally start out as a drummer, and my first experience with creating drum parts was creating patterns with fake drums. It was a good experience to be looking at patterns that are used over and over completely separately from playing them, as I wasn't a drummer at that point. I started putting something intentionally kind of strange in, and that's ended up being something that has afforded me some praise as a drummer. With one song on my last album (called Down River, the album's in my signature) I wanted to find a way to kind of have the main beat include toms, thinking "why do toms have to be confined to fills?". Another song, Pillarsaint, I was sick when originally writing it (which definitely influenced the song), and with the drumming I was playing with going between playing all syncopated accents and playing somewhat straight.

For a few months I've been drumming for a past client turned good friend Christian Bitto (http://christianbitto.bandcamp.com). He does the guitar, bass, and vocals on his recordings while I supply the drums. It's been a good chance to place with drumming ideas, and he's always been pleased with my sometimes unusual choices. One song on his EP is completely cliche, exactly what would be expected for a folk rockish song. Another one, the idea was originally influenced by an Elliot Smith song and a discussion about how the drum part almost bordered on a hip hop beat. For that song, I took that idea and the idea of a straight drum machine and stretched it into having no fills whatsoever in the song, no cymbals other than straight high hat. It was a lesson in restraint and I love it for it. In one way you listen and since the drums aren't changing they fade into the background, but in another sense if you're listening and waiting for a fill it's a suspenseful situation. One more song that'll be going on his next album, I'm doing one long cymbal roll through literally the entire song, staying low in the verses, bigger in the choruses with sparse tom hits, the next chorus adds kick/snare while keeping the cymbal roll going. Only in the climax of the song does it break into a different type of beat, and when that part is over it comes right back into the cymbal roll.

Clearly I like to get a little strange with some things and of course it won't fit with everything, but I try to never just go with what's totally expected unless it's music that has that as the intention.
My first new personal album in four years - pay what you want - http://jessegimbel.bandcamp.com

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