reverb pedal for live vocals?

[curtiswyant]

I want to put some reverb on my vocals live but 1) don't want to rely on the soundguy and 2) want the option of switching it on/off in-between songs. Any suggestions for a reverb pedal (not too pricey)? Also, I'm thinking I could bring a mic/etc and my 'lil Soundcraft folio to set everything up and feed a main out to the soundguy...

[Marc Alan Goodman]

The TC Helicon effects pedal (forget what it's called) with XLR ins and outs is actually pretty great sounding, and it gives you a couple options to switch around during a set.

I somehow misplaced mine....

[chris harris]

UTFSF

[fossiltooth]

Yep. This is a much-discussed topic.

If you currently have to play the sh*ttiest of clubs with the sh*ttiest of soundsguys: try and deal. Put on a good show! You'll be playing better shows with better soundguys soon.

[Brett Siler]

I've had a pretty steady gig doing FOH at a venue for the past two years that gets national acts in all the time. A lot of people have those rackmountable autotuners on their vocals from the stage to get that Cher sound that is all the rage right now. I have had people send me lots of other effects on the vocals from the stage too. It's never been a big deal at all.
I'll tell you what fucking sucks, bands with big stacks and a singer that incessantlycups the mic. Then they get feedback on stage so I turn the singer down in the monitors then they bitch about how they can't hear themselves..

[calaverasgrandes]

getting effected vocals from the stage does bite, but so do a lot of other things. (like vocalists that cup the mic and clip the preamp on its lowest setting seriously, louder than a kick drum!)

It kind of depends on whether the sound guy in question perceives it as a challenge or as a pain in the ass.
Most sound guys like challenges. It brings out the engineering geek.
But being a sound guy quickly loses its glamour and petty tasks turn into pains in the posterior.

So try and present it to the sound guy as, well we are this neat band and we do this unorthodox thing....
Give him the option of soundchecking with you guys and finding a reverb you like, maybe gibe them a set list with big red highlights on songs with verb?
I have done sound for a few bands with verb from the stage and it was just fine, they were very cool about keeping levels kosher and not making me look like a fool.
If you really want to do the pedal thing I would go for one of those Digitech, or TC helicon things that has mic and line outs, because some places you play may not have anything but mic inputs available at the stage.
It is also not unusual for bands to carry effects racks that they patch into the FOH at various venues. Sometimes this will just be a vocal comp and a verb, maybe some special dynamics boxes for the drums too (or as was all the rage in the 90's drum samples triggered by the drum mics).

[curtiswyant]

I searched but I was curious if anyone had any new input.

I don't see how this is different from a noise/electronic musician giving the soundguy a "difficult" feed or source. And I want a consistent sound that I control, not something dependent on hoping I can "trust" the soundguy.

Sorry for the rant.

[fossiltooth]

I've had a pretty steady gig doing FOH at a venue for the past two years that gets national acts in all the time. A lot of people have those rackmountable autotuners on their vocals from the stage to get that Cher sound that is all the rage right now. I have had people send me lots of other effects on the vocals from the stage too. It's never been a big deal at all.
I'll tell you what fucking sucks, bands with big stacks and a singer that incessantlycups the mic. Then they get feedback on stage so I turn the singer down in the monitors then they bitch about how they can't hear themselves..

Oh, I hear ya. That's another story.

Based on the OP's post I assumed we were talking about the small club level and stompbox "vocal processors". In those cases it can be pretty annoying to get a single wet, compressed feed off of one of those digitech vocal pedals, and have to use that to feed the monitors. Even if the signal is split, some of the more overprocessed patches can even cause feedback in the house, especially in small rooms.

Of course, I'm over-cautioning here to discourage this practice. In truth, some bands will be well served by some crazy, unusual vocal effects that would otherwise be difficult to achieve on the small-club level. Unfortunately, too many bands use these just to provide an obvious, run-of-the mill reverb or delay, that doesn't even sound as good as the house processor. All that extra work for a straight-ahead, conventional effect?

"You want a basic plate reverb and an 1/8th note delay? Whoah! Far-out, Man!"

[calaverasgrandes]

why is it different? That is a good question, I can tell you why, because a noise/electronic guy is dleiberately trying to push the envelope and present a non-standard mix to challenge listener. This is actually the worst possible case for a sound guy because they have no reference point to aim for. If I am mixing a death metal band I know the kick is gonna click, the snare is gonna crack. If I am mixing classic rock or R&B the kick is gonna thump and the snare is gonna sound fat. If there is no kick and snare I am gonna tray and figure out what the hell is the rhythmic element? this presumes that the electronic/experimental act is even sending me a mixable send, often I only get a stereo feed, and then there is a guitar. So I have 2 things and EQ to get it all done.

In a standard band format there are decades of rock(country, blues etc) paradigm that you are building on the minute you set up a guitar, bass and drum kit. If the audience cant hear the vocals they will look at the sound guy, not the dude on stage with the reverb box. In my experience, the last thing I want is for any audience member to even be aware there is a sound guy. They should only perceive the band.
I think you would be better off getting a rack mout reverb and foisiting it on the sound guys, maybe get a small half rack pre and a DI and you can interface it anywhere.

[curtiswyant]

I think you would be better off getting a rack mout reverb and foisiting it on the sound guys, maybe get a small half rack pre and a DI and you can interface it anywhere.

Thanks for the response. I want really thick, shoegazey (for lack of a better term) 'verb on the vocals. Your solution makes sense except I want to control it from the stage so maybe a stompbox is ideal.

I play mostly in small clubs, house shows, or "non-conventional" venues which usually have no outboard fx. Here's what I'm thinking: plug vox mic into 'lil notepad mixer (mine) on stage, run 'verb on send, run main into DI for soundguy, maybe I could run a dry insert for monitors, too?

Thanks for all the responses guys. From my experiences, I would have thought that all soundguys would prefer less work, but maybe that's not that case. Or maybe all the guys I know half-ass it.


Oh, and I should say this is partially inspired by the Vivian Girls. They tour with (3) EHX Holy Grail pedals, one for each vocal mic!

[ott0bot]

I can see it both ways....
I understand it's a good thing to give the sound guy a good clean signal, I've run myself sound in several meduim size venues. It's frustrating when you can't control everything, and having egomanics with loud speakers can be frustrating. I generally want to be the one who tells the musicians how we are going to mic everything...and most the time I do!(in a very friendly manner by the way). But if they have a special request I'll always try to accomodate them.

The thing is most of the places I've played don't have outboard gear....and depending who is working you may have to run the board yourself. So I try to anticipate what to use based on the assuming the venue has nothing. I want my band to sound like it should and I think using you're own vocal processors is just fine. Just be cool about it. Ask the sound guy if they have a reverb unit...if not then ask if you can use your own. It's really that simple. And if the sound guy hates you for it he's probably a jerk and he'll find something else to complain about anyway.

Now if you're playing a larger venue with decent equipment this shouldn't be a problem. But if that pedal gives you the sound you want, then just talk to the sound guy and see what you can work out. It's really just a matter of communication.

If you want the best of both worlds get an isolated split of the vocals and run one through your processer and one clean. Have 2 vocal tracks on the board and make the clean one very low in the mix. That way the sound guy can mute the effected track in case of emergency and just raise the volume on the clean signal. It may mess with you a bit...but just be prepared.

[calaverasgrandes]

I have seen some cats get a great sound by using dedicated vocal mikes for the reverb and clean. It kinda obviates the need to have a footswitch and also allows you to put the verb on single words or phrases.

[vorian]

I have seen some cats get a great sound by using dedicated vocal mikes for the reverb and clean. It kinda obviates the need to have a footswitch and also allows you to put the verb on single words or phrases.

When I mixed the Willy Waldman Project, this is what Willy did with his trumpet. Worked great. Also saw Jack White do his vocals that way on live TV. Also cool.

[calaverasgrandes]

I saw it first with Dripping Goss, a side project of some NYC hardcore band, Cromags? Agnostic Front? I forget, either way it was awesome. the guitarist had a delay on one mic and a an effectron or something else that had an inf repeat button.

[JGriffin]

"Dude. You want a basic plate reverb and an 1/8th note delay? Whoah! Far-out, Man. Yeah. We can do that. We *do* have a 'sound system', you know."

Though there are actually venues in Chicago that say, right there on the "artists" page on the website: "our PA system has no reverb."