Scully 280 electronics. How many are enough or too many?

[hyde maintenance]

So I have 8 of these that I use as preamps, and while I do like them quite a bit and use them often, I feel like I'll never end up using more than 4 at a time. As I'm in downsize mode, I'm considering selling 4 off but am a little hesitant because I really prefer having 'blocks' of preamps as opposed to a zillion types of different ones.

Right now I have the 8 Scullys, 4 Syteks, a EH 12ay7, and 16 ch of PM1000 (although I never use these right now as the board needs a recap and direct outs installed), and am pretty happy with this. I'll likely not ever run more than 12 tracks recorded at once (soundcard max- private project studio) so I already have surplus pres around.

Scully owners, am I going to miss having all 8 of these? It really wouldn't hurt my feelings to keep them all, but right now it seems like a (really pretty) waste of rack space.

Please share your thoughts.

[djimbe]

Like 'em. Use mine often. I love the sound of a rock vocal subtley overdriven through the 280 electronics. Or lower freq. material like tenor guitar or cello. They can be fun as make up gain after passive EQ too.

I can't imagine needing more than the 4 I have.

[hyde maintenance]

Yeah I know they're good on all kinds of things- I happen to quite like them for DI bass and drums too- but I've never actually stacked a bunch of tracks with them up, they way you would with console pres for instance.
Maybe I'll try an all Scully song to be sure before I give them up.

[Blade]

I love mine!!!
I wish I had 8 of them.....I have a complete 4 track 1/2".
Gotta love those UTC transformers!!!!

[alkooloid]

Hi-
1st post - woo hoo! My lurking days are behind me now.

I have 6 of these - 2 for parts and 4 that should be back
from my tech any year now (see this Woody?).

Two things -
Is there a difference really between the germanium transistors
and the silicon?

Is there a little dishing/secret uses/tips for old Al here?
This collecting old gear, sending it to my tech, waiting a lifetime,
and eventually being really happy, or rather underwhelmed(Ampex 351s)
is not like the old days, where I'd go into Guitar Center(I know)
and walk out with my new shiny POS. No Roger Nichols to tell me
how much I'll like my new ADAT.(punk) I know it's more rewarding
but it's like falling in love with a woman who wants to "let our
relationship develop for a while" before doing it. Meanwhile I'm
dyin' here. Hey - at least I'm not dating women as old as this
gear I'm using! Wait, I resemble that remark!



Update - got the Scullys back from my tech TODAY!
Plugged them up and WOW!
This whole time I've been kicking myself thinking "I could
have filled up the other 6 slots in style with the money I've
spent in total on these pups - they better be good!"
Well - they are. Amazingly clean for being from the '60s -
and definitely have the same vibe as my Langevin AM-4s,
but a little more balls. Real forward and clear - top end is nice -
with a lot of vroom in the mids. Now I'm happy I persevered.

I guess there's upsides to being poor!

[alkooloid]

Little more info -

"One weird thing I forgot to mention -- the circuit in those Scully preamps is very unusual in one respect. Namely, the mic signal always goes thru three transformers.

There are two odd reasons this happens. One is that in this amp both the mic and line inputs have separate transformers. The other is that the circuit is set up in an unusual way. Where normally the mic and line inputs would be separate until they meet up at the output stage, in this case only the line input is connected to the output stage. So they bump the mic signal to line level and then feed it to the line input. And it therefore has to pass thru both input transformers. "

This from my tech.

[themagicmanmdt]

well, it's a character. that's for sure.

i really enjoy comitting to a total 'sound' and a total character. i like doing everything through mostly the same preamp on my console, with only oe or two different for a little session variety.

so, here's the deal with 'em-

stock, the mic pre does go through the line input transformer, then through the line output. it's easily wired with an additional trim pot and XLR output to seperate the mic preamp from the rest of it. the mic pre definitely gets transformered then transformered again then transformered again when it's left as-is. the other transformers are basically matching transformers, so they're not adding any 'gain' to the circuit.

the mic pre is a fixed gain preamp. the record level control is post-transistor, so adjusting that won't control the amount of 'drive' you get if you're using a really hot mic in the preamp. the record level is an output level, not an input level. a switchable pad before the pre circuit (or a voltage divider/pot as an input level) would really make it versatile.

the thing that's best using the scully as a tape machine is the 'playback level' knob. it's before the playback electronics, so it runs rather clean when the machine's calibrated normally - but using that, I can dial in the amount of drive each channel wants.

yes, the germanium transistor sound is different than the silicon. i've got a silicon transistor Altec preamp/mixer, and the silicon gets zappy and aggressive in things past 5k. the germaniums in the scully smooth the high end and really flatten attack when they're nailed. also, I find the scully to be much more 'dynamic' in it's fuzzy drive thing it does - my altec silicon one is much more of a brickwall/crazy box.

long story short, to have an awesome mic pre:

- see what you can do about converting the 'playback level' knob to an 'input level' knob, with the 'cal' switch position as 'bypassed'

- try tapping the output of the mic preamp before it hits the other output transformers if you want to get 'cleaner' and less goo/thickness

- maybe convert the 'line term' switch as a -20db input pad?

- you could also re-wire it so while in 'rec' you have the mic pre going into the playback circuit. that's a lot of transistors to go through, but the adjustability and tone might be crazy awesome.

possibilities -

I could use a backup module in case one goes down - if you were getting rid of one, let me know first? Maybe I could help with mods if you wanted to send one my way - I could really tweak it out?

in the end - 8ch is a lot - but if you really love it, keep them all! if it's too lo-fi and dirty, then versatility would make a better studio -

[alkooloid]

well, it's a character. that's for sure.

i really enjoy comitting to a total 'sound' and a total character. i like doing everything through mostly the same preamp on my console, with only oe or two different for a little session variety.

so, here's the deal with 'em-

stock, the mic pre does go through the line input transformer, then through the line output. it's easily wired with an additional trim pot and XLR output to seperate the mic preamp from the rest of it. the mic pre definitely gets transformered then transformered again then transformered again when it's left as-is. the other transformers are basically matching transformers, so they're not adding any 'gain' to the circuit.

the mic pre is a fixed gain preamp. the record level control is post-transistor, so adjusting that won't control the amount of 'drive' you get if you're using a really hot mic in the preamp. the record level is an output level, not an input level. a switchable pad before the pre circuit (or a voltage divider/pot as an input level) would really make it versatile.

the thing that's best using the scully as a tape machine is the 'playback level' knob. it's before the playback electronics, so it runs rather clean when the machine's calibrated normally - but using that, I can dial in the amount of drive each channel wants.

yes, the germanium transistor sound is different than the silicon. i've got a silicon transistor Altec preamp/mixer, and the silicon gets zappy and aggressive in things past 5k. the germaniums in the scully smooth the high end and really flatten attack when they're nailed. also, I find the scully to be much more 'dynamic' in it's fuzzy drive thing it does - my altec silicon one is much more of a brickwall/crazy box.

long story short, to have an awesome mic pre:

- see what you can do about converting the 'playback level' knob to an 'input level' knob, with the 'cal' switch position as 'bypassed'

- try tapping the output of the mic preamp before it hits the other output transformers if you want to get 'cleaner' and less goo/thickness

- maybe convert the 'line term' switch as a -20db input pad?

- you could also re-wire it so while in 'rec' you have the mic pre going into the playback circuit. that's a lot of transistors to go through, but the adjustability and tone might be crazy awesome.

possibilities -

I could use a backup module in case one goes down - if you were getting rid of one, let me know first? Maybe I could help with mods if you wanted to send one my way - I could really tweak it out?

in the end - 8ch is a lot - but if you really love it, keep them all! if it's too lo-fi and dirty, then versatility would make a better studio -

Geat post.
Mine are stock but for some mods to get power to the units -
those connectors are rare. It would be fun to hear the input transformer
wind up a bit before the electronics break up, but I'll probably
just pad hot sources down. Someone said you can plug
a mic into the line input - might try it.

I wish I were more burly when it comes to my electronics chops-
but these 5 little monsters sound great to my ears as-is.
I won a 4 channel phantom box just now, which is a bit of a pain
to have to always have inline stuff to make my pres run right,
but I think in the long run it's worth having the odd hues in my palette.
Check out www.naiant.com - they have a cheap and interesting
array of pads etc.

[alkooloid]

Double post.

[hyde maintenance]

Hey thanks for the insights so far.
That was an informative post, themagicmanmdt- thanks. I've often wondered about trying to incorporate that playback knob to harness the output, but I guess input is the way to go. So you like committing to the character of your console pres, but do you ever commit to the Scullys as pres?
I think for the time being I'm gonna hold on to them...free some rack space up some other way.
This weekend I'm gonna try to do that all Scully track so I'll fill in my own blank on this one, but I appreciate hearing other opinions.
Thanks so far.

[Blade]

Just to comment on what alkooloid might try.......

Sometimes when I plug a microphone into the Mic input, it's too much gain for the preamp, so I go into the line input and it's fine.

And it sounds GREAT!!!!!

Another fun thing to do is....when mixing, sometimes I will run stuff back through them for some extra oomph, and it rocks. Give it a try!!!!

[alkooloid]

Thanks, Blade!
So now I'm considering recapping
and re-resistoring the 280's.
The traces are giant by today's standards -
shouldn't be too hard.

What might be the best products to use?