I was a christmas present, and the giftee wants a refund.

[Jay Reynolds]

He even made a rather snide comment about how I should be glad he's not asking for interest.

This doesn't sound like someone negotiating from a strong position. You gave him an invoice, not an interest-bearing note. And you both know it.
Also, even though there is no expiration date on that invoice, it doesn't sound like there's any language stating that he's entitled to a refund at ANY point, be it two days or two years later.
Have him come in and be ruthless with your time. Dude sounds like the type of guy who's going to run his mouth either way, so don't worry about that.

[;ivlunsdystf]

PS If we're quoting our grandparents. My grandfather used to say "the face is a sword." He would literally walk all over town making deals, shaking hands. This guy will have a much harder time dicking you over and misunderstanding you over a cup of coffee. And for god's sake, don't try to resolve this over email.

I learned that general rule a few years ago, mostly from Tony Soprano ("this is a face to face business!" he said once) - much easier to work stuff out in person or (2nd best) on the phone than over email or through intermediaries.

[BENDYmusic]

This may not be the popular belief on this board, but it is my opinion that you should give the guy most* of his money back. (*minus a non-refundable deposit) Then get the hell away from the guy cause he is going to be trouble to deal with, trust me. All the tell tail signs are there. Refund? Yes, this is a business, they paid for work to be done, if there is no work to be done, its not really fair to keep the money. Sorry you invested so much time on the phone, but thats how it goes. Just eat it and have something to remember next time an offer like this presents, or when you are wording your invoices. Good luck..

[Snarl 12/8]

This may not be the popular belief on this board, but it is my opinion that you should give the guy most* of his money back. (*minus a non-refundable deposit) Then get the hell away from the guy cause he is going to be trouble to deal with, trust me. All the tell tail signs are there. Refund? Yes, this is a business, they paid for work to be done, if there is no work to be done, its not really fair to keep the money. Sorry you invested so much time on the phone, but thats how it goes. Just eat it and have something to remember next time an offer like this presents, or when you are wording your invoices. Good luck..

That might indeed be the best way to put this completely behind you.

[BENDYmusic]

That might indeed be the best way to put this completely behind you.

Your avatar freaks me out but I can't stop looking at it.

[Snarl 12/8]

That might indeed be the best way to put this completely behind you.

Your avatar freaks me out but I can't stop looking at it.

If you're using Firefox you can right click on the image and block it. But then you won't be able to see other images I post.

[Nick Sevilla]

More than 2 years ago, a woman bought a day of recording at my studio as a gift for her singer/songwriter husband, she paid my day rate, I gave her an invoice and just said to have him book with me. I felt like it was a kind of wierd situation, but she seemed nice, and I know people who know her husband, so I figured it'd be OK.

So he calls me a number of times, I probably have spent several hours on the phone with him total. He kind of picks my brain about how I'm recording, what software/hardware I use, and just seems really like he needs to know every detail of the process. Several times, he books time with me, only to cancel eventually, always for good reasons, he had surgery once, etc. Contact drops off, and I didn't hear from him for probably a year.

So, last week, I finally do hear from him, and now he wants a refund. He just bought a new mac laptop and Logic, and some more stuff, and wants to do it all himself. The problem is, money is really, really tight for me right now (like everybody else, I know) and I really can't afford it. I've told him I'd be glad to help him with his project or even hooking up his gear, whatever, but he says he just wants the money. He even made a rather snide comment about how I should be glad he's not asking for interest.

It's really not that much money, I am very cheap, but right now I am barely getting by and I have to plan out any expenses way in advance now. Plus, I feel kind of steamed that he used the advice I gave him (for free) to decide on what software to get (I use Logic too). I didn't log my phone time with him, but it was substantial, I remember several 30-45 minute conversations. I don't usually charge for phone consulting, and generally believe in sharing what I know, but this situation just has me kind of bummed.

What should I do?

Never again give gift certificates. "Cash and Carry" is better.

Meet with him in person, and explain that you cannot refund his wife's money.

Explain to him that you already gave him a LOT of consultation time, in the understanding that he was going to use this gift certificate with you.

He still wants "his" money... tell him to sue you.

Cheers

[;ivlunsdystf]

This may not be the popular belief on this board, but it is my opinion that you should give the guy most* of his money back. (*minus a non-refundable deposit) Then get the hell away from the guy cause he is going to be trouble to deal with, trust me. All the tell tail signs are there. Refund? Yes, this is a business, they paid for work to be done, if there is no work to be done, its not really fair to keep the money. Sorry you invested so much time on the phone, but thats how it goes. Just eat it and have something to remember next time an offer like this presents, or when you are wording your invoices. Good luck..

That might indeed be the best way to put this completely behind you.

I agree with this but I keep not quite saying it directly.

[mattwhritenour]

Here is the reply email you should send to him,

"
To whomever,

I understand your reasons for wanting a refund, but I have news for you.







NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
"

After all the time you spent with him on the phone and him canceling multiple times, you should tell him he's lucky you're not sending him a bill.

I agree not to charge for phone time, I wouldn't either. But then he cancels on you good reason or not, you gave him the benefit of the doubt and OK'd it to move the date at a better time, doing all of these favors for him. And now he thinks you owe him something? Tell him to go screw, why worry about burning a bridge with him? If you do then you won't have to worry about him trying to take advantage of you.

I would be very nice in the email but firm, and not give him any money at all. At this point you owe him nothing, if you want to let him come in for his time still I wouldn't disagree but there should be absolutely no money involved at all.

[;ivlunsdystf]

Vote? Shall we vote?

[AstroDan]

Just offer him free recording time. It's win/win - he obviously won't take you up on it and you are making good on the refund. If he wants to be a dick, just turn it into business right back in his face.

Or, call him up and say you're the owner of a club he played two years ago and you want him to give back what you paid him because you just didn't sell enough beer that night. I doubt he would reply, "Sure. That's sounds reasonable."

[agauchede]

Generally speaking, (I work in retail), gift certificates have no cash value, and he wouldn't stand up in court, unless she paid you with a credit card.

These days, a lot of engineers take 1/2 down, non-refundable deposits when booking a session.

The suggestion to offer him some consulting in return is a good one.

Good luck,
Chris

[Aquaman]

If you're using Firefox you can right click on the image and block it.

Thanks! I was just about to post something to the effect of, "I can't even read your posts because of that avatar", but this takes care of it.

//Love the Recursahoff, but it's impossible to focus on anything else while it's on-screen.

[Snarl 12/8]

If you're using Firefox you can right click on the image and block it.

Thanks! I was just about to post something to the effect of, "I can't even read your posts because of that avatar", but this takes care of it.

//Love the Recursahoff, but it's impossible to focus on anything else while it's on-screen.

I wish I knew everyone that was blocking my av so that I could block theirs in retaliation.

[lotusstudio]

He's being totally unfair and ridiculous for asking for the money. You should be charging him extra for mental anguish and for chewing up your time!!

If you want to be the good guy, split the difference, give him half of the money back but tell him to NEVER EVER call you again. EVER!