Using a compressor on entire mix before sending to ME

mrautorock · Post by **mrautorock** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:26 pm

First off thanks for all your help and your convincing me that I should get a mastering engineer! I've decided to save to get my music mastered rather than do it myself.
I am of course going to leave the stereo buss on all my tracks empty and pull down the master faders to about -6db so they peak at about -1db for the engineeer. However, there is one song in particular that shares a different style from the rest that I have a multiband compressor on the final out that I really like the sound of. Would you give the track a listen and tell me if it's OK that I leave it on there before handing off to the mastering engineer? It has no added gain on it, just some compression that really brightened and livened up the mix, it sounds really dull without it, and I know the mastering engineer can do this for me but I tweaked the sound exactly to my liking.
thanks, your opinions appreciated!!!

download link on right hand side of page, halfway down

http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=120807

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:38 pm

edited for dumbness

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:09 pm

why not send both - if the ME can do a better job - if not use yours?

also - just a thought. do you mean turn your master fader down to -6 so it's not peaking?

I am of course going to leave the stereo buss on all my tracks empty and pull down the master faders to about -6db so they peak at about -1db for the engineeer.

you should have your master fader at zero (unity gain) and get no digital overs/peaks with no compression on. if you are getting peaks you need to proportionally turn down all your individual tracks - otherwise you are overdriving your individual channels and just turning down the master won't change that. plus you'll get a bigger more open soundstage if you keep your levels down a little. i've learned that the hard way...

C_R_J · Post by **C_R_J** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:07 am

leaving the ME only -1 of room seems like very little 2 me.

my 2 cents...

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:01 pm

Call the Mastering Engineer and ask he or she what they need/want for headroom. Be prepared for the session with good communication before the session to prevent any possibly f'ups with levels.

Also, most DAWs that I have used have something called a "Trim" plug-in. I run Digital Performer and I use the Trim plug-in all of the time to turn stuff down before insert FX, in case I or somebody recorded things too hot. Plug-ins WILL CLIP OR DISTORT depending on how they process audio. For instance, all of my Waves plug-ins are very finicky about how much level they see at input. Turning stuff down, attenuating levels with trim BEFORE hitting the rest of my insert fx is what gives me the best results. This is for Audio Tracks only. Aux tracks are getting the level of the audio sent to them through a bus depending on what the level of the audio is that hits the bus, so there is no need to screw with your mix by turning them down with a Trim plug-in. You can easily keep your exact mix by taking a gain reduction plug-in (Trim, whatever it is called) and placing it on every audio track in the mix, keeping the same amount of reduction per track. This way you do not even touch the faders.

I would seriously turn everything down by -6dB with Trim (or whatever your DAW uses) and turn up your monitors. If you are not getting enough level on the Master Fader at that point I would add another Trim there, keep the fader at zero, and turn it up accordingly (should be minute) so that the RMS and Peak levels are falling into the realm of what the Mastering Engineer needs.

The first time that I took stuff to our mastering guys, I called them and talked to them about what they needed. I figured on -6dB for the highest peak, with -18dB to -15dB RMS, but they said -3dB peak and not to worry.

If you like the character of the multi-band, bounce through it but also, as mentioned, take a dry track as well without it. Most likely the ME will have some uber-amazing hardware stuff that will sound even better on it, but you can at least play and example.

Jeff

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Sun May 03, 2009 1:13 pm

Don't be a wimp. Send the ME the mix you like. If that means there's a comp on the 2-mix, so be it. I always use a 2-mix comp, and I've never EVER sent a mix with and one without. COMIT!

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:13 pm

Send both. Tell him which one you like better. He'll likely use that one, unless there's some kind of problem, in which case, he can use the other. Better yet, go to the session.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:25 pm

cgarges wrote:Better yet, go to the session.

+1000

I can't tell you how informative going to a mastering session was for me. And fun!

Jeff

Waltz Mastering · Post by **Waltz Mastering** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:37 pm

IMHO...If it serves the song do it... If it's invisible sounding, that's all the better...
In general, I think a good hardware compressor always seems to work better than a plug, but either can work when done right. Depending on a lot of things and very in general, usually slow attack times, fast release times, high thresholds and low ratios are the least detectable.

mrautorock · Post by **mrautorock** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:08 pm

wow, you guys are far more helpful here than in other forums.

im going to print a dry and compressed version

about this "trim" plugin, that i can use on the individual tracks to attenuate them while preserving the balance of the mix, what should I use in logic? or is there a freeware AU plugin that will do it? hopefully theres something i can use with logic because I dont have any other DAW

thanks again

Vic

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:32 pm

I've been using the Massey L2007 mastering limiter on an aux track when mixing down in pro tools to reduce the gain a bit and then monitoring the new track with the Sonalksis Free G plug in to make sure my peaks are around -6 or so. Seems to work pretty good without compressing the signal too much. No squashing, just a bit of limiting and level adjustment.

litepipe · Post by **litepipe** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:28 pm

If you have something special you don't think can be replicated send him that one. Maybe good to have the uncompressed one in your back pocket. I've learned this the hard way, whether it be engineering or mixing. If it's supposed to sound that way commit!!

C_R_J · Post by **C_R_J** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:38 pm

i will post it again.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... highlight=
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... highlight=
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... highlight=
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... highlight=
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

that thread is really worth the day it takes to read it. seriously.

kingtoad · Post by **kingtoad** » Mon May 04, 2009 4:32 am

mrautorock wrote:wow, you guys are far more helpful here than in other forums.

im going to print a dry and compressed version

about this "trim" plugin, that i can use on the individual tracks to attenuate them while preserving the balance of the mix, what should I use in logic? or is there a freeware AU plugin that will do it? hopefully theres something i can use with logic because I dont have any other DAW

thanks again

Vic

The plugin you want in Logic is "Gain". It's under the "Utility" submenu.

mrautorock · Post by **mrautorock** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

Wow. thanks so much for reposting that thread as it flew right by my eyes the first time. I only read the first page so far (im at work) and it taught me alot of very important points.

So now my big question:
I've apparently overloaded my input chain by recording at too hot a level for all my instruments...basically right under clipping. I've been using the Apogee Duet interface for this project and im not sure what its converters are calibrated for, but I imagine it's in the realm of that -18dbvu standard.

So at this point, what's my best bet with all these "hot" signals so they make the best mix to the bus? Lowering the master fader, or using the gain plugin before any other plugins on the individual channel strips to attenuate the signals evenly across the board? Or am I screwed out of a "big, dynamic, loud" sounding record because I recorded everything too hot during the tracking phase?
help! and thanks again

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Using a compressor on entire mix before sending to ME

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