Room echo in a mix

Wagz · Post by **Wagz** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:29 am

So, I was just happily chewed out because I told someone I could not eliminate room echo from a built in microphone on a video camera. they were like 6 feet from the person in a brick room. I swept through the sound frequencies with an EQ looking to see if there were spots where the voice was stronger than the echo and there was not.

So, is there any technique, plugin, process, etc. that can get rid of an echo/ reverb. Or do I just demand that we stick with the age-old rule of making sure they record it correctly the first time through?

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:38 am

you can sit there all day and try any number of eq/compression/expansion scenarios, and they might maybe ameliorate it somewhat, but "video camera 6 feet away in a brick room" is gonna be reverby no matter what you do.

slap your chewer-outer across the face with a white glove and demand an apology.

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:19 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:you can sit there all day and try any number of eq/compression/expansion scenarios, and they might maybe ameliorate it somewhat, but "video camera 6 feet away in a brick room" is gonna be reverby no matter what you do.

slap your chewer-outer across the face with a white glove and demand an apology.

i think a U87 to the crotch at 3 feet would work better.

darjama · Post by **darjama** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:21 am

I'm thinking noise reduction and gating, but yeah, there are limits to what you can do. You could try something like the spectro plugin to help you visualize the echo: http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=32

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Sun May 10, 2009 11:43 pm

what did the guy say when he chewed you out?

other than EQ and dynamic expansion / contraction (treating room as 'noise'), you're still going to have it and there's nothing to do.

don't feel bad. no way.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:50 am

You could try a gate? Or manually riding the volume. But it's kindof like trying to uncompress or undistort something.

I used to work at a video internship program (very weird, kinda cool and unique program) and I could always tell the crappy videos without looking at them. That boxy sound of shitty video.

Sorry.

We did this one "interview" program with 6 open lav mics on an echoey soundstage. I had to manually mute all the mics in post when their owner wasn't talking (or grunting, eh hmming, etc.) to make it sound "pro" and not like echoey, phasey bullshit. The producers didn't even care, but I couldn't let it go out like that.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:08 am

Make him overdub; that'll fix him.

Wagz · Post by **Wagz** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:24 am

well what had happened is one of our cameras went out for repairs on the lens. So they get the thing back and take it for an interview and when they get there they find that the XLR ins aren't working at all. Come to find out later that the geniuses who repaired it had to disconnect the XLR's to replace the lens and never reconnected them.

Anyway they shot the thing cause the guy was leaving for a couple weeks or whatever and this was their only chance to get it.

So I was given it. I swept over everything with an EQ trying to listen to any sweet spots where either the echo was really solid or the voice sounded any better and the echo was pretty much even across the whole range.
Pretty much said there was nothing so much I can do, dropped the highs and lows a bit to make the voice sound a little bit clearer and gave it back.
The trouble came in when someone else told my boss that it could be done. So in the end its just people getting frustrated cause nothing can really be done.

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:30 am

Wagz wrote:well what had happened is one of our cameras went out for repairs on the lens. So they get the thing back and take it for an interview and when they get there they find that the XLR ins aren't working at all. Come to find out later that the geniuses who repaired it had to disconnect the XLR's to replace the lens and never reconnected them.

Anyway they shot the thing cause the guy was leaving for a couple weeks or whatever and this was their only chance to get it.

So I was given it. I swept over everything with an EQ trying to listen to any sweet spots where either the echo was really solid or the voice sounded any better and the echo was pretty much even across the whole range.
Pretty much said there was nothing so much I can do, dropped the highs and lows a bit to make the voice sound a little bit clearer and gave it back.
The trouble came in when someone else told my boss that it could be done. So in the end its just people getting frustrated cause nothing can really be done.

Have that genius put his money where his mouth is, then...

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Mon May 18, 2009 11:58 pm

Wagz wrote:So I was given it. I swept over everything with an EQ trying to listen to any sweet spots where either the echo was really solid or the voice sounded any better and the echo was pretty much even across the whole range.
Pretty much said there was nothing so much I can do, dropped the highs and lows a bit to make the voice sound a little bit clearer and gave it back.

Yeah, it's not a problem that can be fixed by traditional tools like EQ or gating. You might try a broadband noise reduction, which essentially chops up your audio into thousands of tiny frequency bands (via a Fourier transform) and applies gating to each band seperately.

Or wait and try the Prosoniq sonicWORX, due out this summer. If it can extract voice from a busy mix (albeit with some artifacts), it might be able to pull desirable "voice sound" from "crappy room" sound. It's quite expensive, but you might be able to try a demo long enough for your clip. Google for the demo they do with a Peter Gabriel song, it's impressive.

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:12 am

darjama wrote:I'm thinking noise reduction and gating, but yeah, there are limits to what you can do. You could try something like the spectro plugin to help you visualize the echo: http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=32

Or, this might be an option - the Spectro has an least some manipulation tools. Haven't used it before myself though.

rydberg · Post by **rydberg** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:26 am

I've found that the Waves X-Noise pug-in does a pretty good job with removing room tone/reverb. You have to tweak the hell out of it and sometimes use two instances in series along with some compression along the way, but it's usually better than the original unprocessed echoey mess. You can download a 30-day demo from their website, too.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:28 am

i hate to say anything nice about waves, but x-noise is a really useful plug.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:36 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:i hate to say anything nice about waves, but x-noise is a really useful plug.

yes.

Wagz · Post by **Wagz** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:25 am

Well thanks everyone. Definitely gave me some peace of mind.
Basic answer: No unless you have a budget for some very specific, expensive plug-in that will help eliminate some of the sound.
Was looking at the stillwell one, looks rather fun to fiddle around with.

In the end I'd prefer to have people get it right the first time and then spend my money on something that will be useful on a more regular basis.

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Room echo in a mix

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