50k fantasy studio

[lightandmind]

X2 16track 2" machines, both linked togather, one running at 15ips for bass heavy tracks, the other at 30ips for higher fidelity, but that's my dream. Highly sought-after pieces, like vintage U47s or pultecs, stuff that you will find usefull & will re-sell if you don't, stuff that doesn't degrade in value. It's hard to make specific suggestions without knowing what kind of music you plan to record. Commercial facilites cater to being universal, possesing a lot of utility equipment, what exactly will seperate you from that? You say the space is not an issue? What is $50k of gear really worth without an incredible room to use it in. If that gear were mine, you'd better believe that my control room would be free of reflections & geared for TRANSLATION. I would have a gorgious sounding room to track in that would allow all those new amazing toys to shine to their fullest, making the most out of them. I've always wanted to find an old avacado factory, the wall are lined with cork, isolating the room from the rest of the world. Asking us here is great & all, but not many people get to have all of that in one shot, so do you research.

[standup]

OK, I'll try to work in your parameters. I'm partial to SoundWorkshop consoles, and they go for low-ish prices. A 34b is a later model, pretty refined. I've got a 1280b, they used to be cheap. 1280s have a less refined sound, but are lightweight and moveable, which an installed console is not.

Get some great monitors. Listen and figure out what you like. Then put the console in and get your control room reasonably accurate with acoustic treatment.

Then do patchbays and wiring. And get the old console up to 100% function. You may need a tech for this phase.

Once you've got that kinda stuff worked out, get work on the front-end. To be extravagant, get 8 channels of good pre's in addition to your console, maybe a 500 series lunchbox or two for a variety of modules to drop in. A couple compressors -- 1176, distressor, what have you.

A bunch of good dynamic mics (what do you like? RE20, Senn 441, Beyer, EV, Shure?). A couple of ribbon mics, a couple of small diaphragm condensors (I love Oktavas with modded electronics and a variety of capsules -- super versatile), and a couple-three large diaphragm condensors (maybe a pair of 414's and a vintage Neumann or a reasonable new re-creation of one)

A computer, the software you like, and 24 channels of great converters. Or a 2" 24-track.

And you're done.

Ooops. Cables, mic stands, snakes, gobos, music stands, loads and loads more cables and lots of adapters.

You could do it all for $50k, I think, or you could insist on the very best in every category and triple it or more.

[ott0bot]

You could get a new loaded API 1608 console for 50k. But you'd still need mics and cables. But then you could add 500 series modules of your choice for comps and what not.

But if you want high quality recordings I'd definately get some great ad/da convertors. You could pick up a couple Lynx Aurora 16's for 5 or 6k. Get some high quality moniors too. Plus treating the control room properly will give you better monitoring.

[Corey Y]

Soundcraft Ghost LE

Alesis HD24

Adam monitors and nearfields

Patchbays, snakes, cables, etc.

A handful of decent outboard pres, comp/limiters, eq, etc. UA, Summit Audio, Empirical Labs, dbx.

A few "big name" mics.

I would spend the rest on building up my space in my warehouse. Acoustic treatment, a separate control room, couple isolation booths and enough room left for one big live room with high ceilings. I wouldn't splurge on really expensive stuff, just what I know I could make good use of and I could get a lot of bang for my buck with construction because I can do a lot of the work myself, have good contractors at my disposal for electrical and such, and I can get materials at cost.

I would probably spend about 30-40K on the gear and the rest on the space. That's assuming I'm not keeping pretty much anything I have no except my mic locker. I've actually been working on a design for an updated setup/workflow based on an analog front end and HD recorder and all my outboard gear at this point are keepers if I ever make that upgrade, so I wouldn't have to spend quite so much on that end of things.

[casey campbell]

[Judas Jetski]

I'd get one really really really KILLER KILLLLLLLLLER room for like $49K and spend the other grand or so on some really simple gear.

EDIT: For me that would mean a decent 1/2" 8-track, a good mixdown deck, some decent but oddball rack gear (so it's cheap, but still good), some microphones (probably from Michael Joly, natch), a console with decent pres (and at least passable EQ section), the best used monitors I could find for under about $500... ummm other stuff (whatever I forgot, how about mic stands) and a metric buttload of tape. That would set me back probably $2 grand.

I'd spend the other $48K on the room.

[drumsound]

I'd get one really really really KILLER KILLLLLLLLLER room for like $49K and spend the other grand or so on some really simple gear.

EDIT: For me that would mean a decent 1/2" 8-track, a good mixdown deck, some decent but oddball rack gear (so it's cheap, but still good), some microphones (probably from Michael Joly, natch), a console with decent pres (and at least passable EQ section), the best used monitors I could find for under about $500... ummm other stuff (whatever I forgot, how about mic stands) and a metric buttload of tape. That would set me back probably $2 grand.

I'd spend the other $48K on the room.

Don't you think it would be a shame to have such a fantastic room and prosumer gear?


With $50 I'd take the stuff I have and have Fran Manzella design me a room. Hell maybe just rebuild my control room and buy some more outboard and mics.

[DJ_LBP]

You could get a new loaded API 1608 console for 50k. But you'd still need mics and cables. But then you could add 500 series modules of your choice for comps and what not.

This was my first thought as well. A quick 50k.

But for a more well-rounded spot, with my tastes...
-Modular synth. Like a Keith Emerson wall. Doesn't have to be moog, could be just a huge collection of all sorts of companies.
-Plenty of top-end channels of conversion. I don't really know enough about these yet to name a product, but i have seen several really good ones mentioned on here already.
-Small console, maybe 12 or 16 channels with a few groups.
-Mics: SM7, a few 421s, a 441 or two, Coles 4038 pair, FET 47, AKG D12, RE20s, a C24 or two, a couple C12s, a 87, 67, 47, shit, anything old with a tube in it that works, really.
-Outboard-1176s, I really want an 1178 for stereo drum bus. LA2As, Neve pres, Distressors, a Lexicon or two, I guess all the obvious stuff.

Honestly, if something like this happened, I would probably have a heart attack from stressing about what to buy.

[Judas Jetski]

I'd get one really really really KILLER KILLLLLLLLLER room for like $49K and spend the other grand or so on some really simple gear....[blar blar blar]....

Don't you think it would be a shame to have such a fantastic room and prosumer gear?


With $50 I'd take the stuff I have and have Fran Manzella design me a room. Hell maybe just rebuild my control room and buy some more outboard and mics.

I guess it probably would be. I'm just thinking that it's way easier to come up with good gear (or make half-baked gear sound good) than it is to come up with a good room. And there's just no way to fake a good room.

Maybe I'm underestimating just how much $50,000 will buy.

[joelmoore]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the feedback. It seems that the consensus is to concentrate on choosing the best space possible.

Any thoughts on ideal room dimensions? I know that rectangles are better than squares and high ceilings are preferred. And no 90 degree angles. I treated a couple rooms a while back with superchunks and auralex. But I'd like for this one to be better than my limited DIY skills can produce.

Can anyone recommend a trustworthy contractor that knows room in room (floated floor) construction and acoustic treatment?

FYI - I've been informed that my budget is now between 50-100k.

I'm still interested in gear suggestions.

[standup]

OK, if you're talking about actual dollars and looking for contractors, it would help to describe what you might be recording.

String quartets? Death metal? Synth pop? All have very different room/equipment/etc requirements.

Are you comfortable working with a console, which I and everybody else suggests when we're just shooting ideas around in a wanky kinda way, or are you more of an in-the-box kinda guy? Because the way you work or want to work is actually more important than API vs baby SSL or digital consoles blah blah blah.

[casey campbell]

buy an old abandoned school auditorium or church or something with really high ceilings...or perhaps an old warehouse. try to get it for rock bottom. deal deal deal. buy nothing for asking price. do the work yourself...barter with some friends to help. recording time for construction time....etc.

also - learn how to construct sound absorption panels yourself.

a whole heap of denim jeans stacked on each other within a decorative frame covered with cloth soaks a lot of low end in corners, etc.

read everything you can find written by malcom chisholm.

then concentrate on :

a. monitors
b. microphones
c. mic pre's
d. a decent computer with good specs. with a DAW program of your choice.
e. a security system
f. make sure you factor in simple overhead kind of stuff too.
g. decent cabling
h. stands

also - don't worry about some huge console to impress clients... 50k will buy a whole heap of brand new reliable nice mic pres and mics, while it'll barely pay for a professional large format console in poor condition that will have to be recapped soon.

if this is a gift of money go for it. if it's a credit kind of thing....run far away. i paid cash for every bit of my gear, or it was given to me. it's best to own the gear rather than it own you. in this day and age, everyone has a little pro tools setup (or cubase, sonar, reaper, etc) on their laptop. why would they pay you 500-700 a day when they can get uncle earl to do it for free? think low overhead. don't try to start out huge. pace yourself. earn a reputation for being a good engineer. your reputation more than the gear will get you clients in the long term. the honeymoon of fancy gear is short lived in a music community where everyone talks...

also, use part of that 50k to buy yourself a bible and a book about social skills. (im not kidding). knowing what to say and how to say it in a session is key. present yourself in a professional and kind manner and you'll have return business. treat everyone you meet as a potential client.

keep in mind you'll need cleaning and coffee supplies.

good luck.

[joelmoore]

OK, if you're talking about actual dollars and looking for contractors, it would help to describe what you might be recording.

String quartets? Death metal? Synth pop? All have very different room/equipment/etc requirements.

Are you comfortable working with a console, which I and everybody else suggests when we're just shooting ideas around in a wanky kinda way, or are you more of an in-the-box kinda guy? Because the way you work or want to work is actually more important than API vs baby SSL or digital consoles blah blah blah.

ok, yes real dollars but not really confirmed until yesterday which is why this post started out more hypothetical.

Mostly drums, guitars, bass, keyboards, vocals, organs, piano, synths, more OTB than ITB, equal parts analog to digital, songwriter to rock band type stuff.

[joelmoore]

buy an old abandoned school auditorium or church or something with really high ceilings...or perhaps an old warehouse. try to get it for rock bottom. deal deal deal. buy nothing for asking price. do the work yourself...barter with some friends to help. recording time for construction time....etc.

I'm not going to find anything in NYC for sale at 50 or 100k. So I have to think in terms of outfitting a rental space. I'm actually viewing spaces in Greenpoint, Gowanus, Red Hook, E. Burg, Bushwick, and Manhattan. As far as I can tell from the market that I've encountered there's no way I'm buying anything for much under a million. So that's not a real scenario for me. As far as rentals though there are plenty to be had. But as far as rentals that aren't in litigation with neighbors about noise pollution there are far fewer. Or so I've been told by the brokers and landlords I've been in contact with.

also - learn how to construct sound absorption panels yourself.

a whole heap of denim jeans stacked on each other within a decorative frame covered with cloth soaks a lot of low end in corners, etc.

read everything you can find written by malcom chisholm.

good advice - though I really hate doing construction - i have a hard time finding any pleasure in it - most times I feel its worth paying someone who knows wtf they're doing

if this is a gift of money go for it. if it's a credit kind of thing....run far away. i paid cash for every bit of my gear, or it was given to me. it's best to own the gear rather than it own you. in this day and age, everyone has a little pro tools setup (or cubase, sonar, reaper, etc) on their laptop. why would they pay you 500-700 a day when they can get uncle earl to do it for free? think low overhead. don't try to start out huge. pace yourself. earn a reputation for being a good engineer. your reputation more than the gear will get you clients in the long term. the honeymoon of fancy gear is short lived in a music community where everyone talks...

it is not credit. I'd have to be AIG or General Motors to get that much credit right now I suppose...

also, use part of that 50k to buy yourself a bible and a book about social skills. (im not kidding). knowing what to say and how to say it in a session is key. present yourself in a professional and kind manner and you'll have return business. treat everyone you meet as a potential client.

keep in mind you'll need cleaning and coffee supplies.

good luck.

I already own a bible. It's one of those oversized ones. It has pictures. It was previously owned by Izalea Johnston of Yazoo City, Mississippi.

[casey campbell]

ha too cool.

it sounds as if you have a really good situation coming your way as far as recording.

best of luck to you....and if i happen to come across izalea in this life or the next, ill let her know you are taking good care of it... although she may want it back!

let us know how your venture goes....im genuinely excited for you.