50k fantasy studio

[Paid In Full]

My fantasy studio would be entirely made of Ampeg and Ampex gear. Two great tastes that go great together.

[Judas Jetski]

Wow. That's a bunch of dough. Take your time, man, take your time... money like that can go to your head quicker than you realize.

One thing to at least consider... once you get away from the City real estate becomes a lot cheaper. Is there some tiny town far away from anyplace that you have some connection to? Here in Rochester 100K would flat-out buy you a nice house in a good neighborhood. Not that you're looking for a house, but I've heard so many horror stories about people renting rooms, spending zillions of dollars fixing them up, and then losing their lease. You might be better off setting up shop somewhere a little more out of the way--but someplace which is all yours. But needless to say, options will be limited, and there's all that travel time and expense to think about.

Please do keep us all posted. This is really exciting.

[joelmoore]

Wow. That's a bunch of dough. Take your time, man, take your time... money like that can go to your head quicker than you realize.

I appreciate the wise advise. "I am a patient boy...I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait"

One thing to at least consider... once you get away from the City real estate becomes a lot cheaper. Is there some tiny town far away from anyplace that you have some connection to? Here in Rochester 100K would flat-out buy you a nice house in a good neighborhood. Not that you're looking for a house, but I've heard so many horror stories about people renting rooms, spending zillions of dollars fixing them up, and then losing their lease. You might be better off setting up shop somewhere a little more out of the way--but someplace which is all yours. But needless to say, options will be limited, and there's all that travel time and expense to think about.

I understand the reasoning. But I'm not leaving the city for any reason. I made that mistake in 2006. I'm back since August and ain't going nowhere. For me leaving New York is not an option.

I just spent 2 and half years in Nashville with the whole lower cost of living argument as part of my motivation for doing so. The fact is that it's all relative. For me, there was much less money to be made there than here so I essentially just downgraded my lifestyle. I wound up making less money and paying a little less for stuff. But really not much less. I had more space but in a place I didn't really enjoy. And the real differences showed up in areas that I ultimately decided I couldn't go on sacrificing. Things like being nowhere near decent food. The general motivation level of the people I was surrounded by being next to zero. Being so far away from an ocean. It damn near drove me crazy to be honest. Since I've been back I've never felt better.

Please do keep us all posted. This is really exciting.

Will do. Thanks for all the replies. It helps to have a place to go to talk this stuff through where the people actually know what you're talking about.

[locosoundman]

Investing your money in a rental space is one of the most foolish investments you can make. Once the lease is up or the landlord sells the building, you are SOL.

Here is an alternative idea:
invest the 50k in a high yield investment account. Keep the principal - spend the dividends on gear as it comes.

Or use it as a down payment on some real estate that you can convert into a studio. The studio business is the real estate business. Use the income from the studio to pay the mortgage.

Otherwise I would buy Schoeps, API, &c. - stuff that can be bought new and will retain its value.

[joelmoore]

Here is an alternative idea:
invest the 50k in a high yield investment account. Keep the principal - spend the dividends on gear as it comes.

I only know enough about high yield investing to know I'd very likely be taken for a ride. I live about 6 blocks from Madoff er well ...where Madoff's wife lives.

Or use it as a down payment on some real estate that you can convert into a studio. The studio business is the real estate business. Use the income from the studio to pay the mortgage.

Buying a building is something that I would do if I had the credit but I don't have adequate credit or collateral or co-signors for that size loan right now. I have actually been giving some thought to renting a space to convert for rehearsal rooms to start a revenue stream that would over time enhance my credit/collateral. The idea being that once that stabilized I'd re-up. That's when I'd try for buying a space to build the studio.

The studio is less about commerce to me than having a place to do my thing and to work with friends but I know it would be smart to do something that generates profit/cash flow. Investments or rehearsal space or hot dog stand, I'm considering anything as long as it doesn't consume my life. I don't want to be buried by my initial investment to the extent that I can't make music.

I'm talking it through with friends so I don't do something foolish. But I honestly don't see any way around renting given my circumstances and it being NYC and all.

[Dakota]

I'm talking it through with friends so I don't do something foolish. But I honestly don't see any way around renting given my circumstances and it being NYC and all.

You've already been thinking about this I suspect, but given that you have insufficient money to buy in NYC, but good money to rent, and the economy being shakey... you are in a good position to negotiate a fixed and locked long term lease. A 5 to 10 year locked lease, some $ into build doesn't look as foolish. If you can sublet some of that....

[locosoundman]

Buying a building is something that I would do if I had the credit but I don't have adequate credit or collateral or co-signors for that size loan right now. I have actually been giving some thought to renting a space to convert for rehearsal rooms to start a revenue stream that would over time enhance my credit/collateral. The idea being that once that stabilized I'd re-up. That's when I'd try for buying a space to build the studio.

The studio is less about commerce to me than having a place to do my thing and to work with friends but I know it would be smart to do something that generates profit/cash flow. Investments or rehearsal space or hot dog stand, I'm considering anything as long as it doesn't consume my life. I don't want to be buried by my initial investment to the extent that I can't make music.

I live in NYC too. Your revenue stream might be eaten alive by your rent - especially since you are using the studio to do your own thing, not to actually make money (if that can be done with a studio nowadays).

Have you even given a try at getting a loan or locating a foreclosure in one of the outer boroughs? I am guessing this 50k is a once in a lifetime thing - I'd hate to see it go down the toilet in a rental space. You'll dump half your money into construction costs and there is no way you will ever get that back. I guess if it's just a rehearsal space, maybe the costs won't be that bad, but a certain amount of soundproofing will be necessary, both within the space and for the sanity of your neighbors. That kind of construction does not come cheap.

Here's another thought - buy a small truck or van - make a mobile control room. Take the studio on the road...

[joelmoore]

I live in NYC too. Your revenue stream might be eaten alive by your rent - especially since you are using the studio to do your own thing, not to actually make money (if that can be done with a studio nowadays).

I've found some commercial spaces (2k sq. ft. approx 3k per month) that I'm considering. It seems there is a lot of commercial Real Estate available for rent but very little to buy. This is what made me think I might need to setup the rehearsal space rentals to cover rent and operating cost and to seed the studio. So the studio isn't bearing the burden of covering rent and operations. The thought of NEEDING to make money from a studio is frightening. I'm not saying I wouldn't use it to make money but if I HAD to make money in order to keep it I'd be in mental hell. The ideal scenario is to have something going that makes money but doesn't destroy me and my life in the process.

Have you even given a try at getting a loan or locating a foreclosure in one of the outer boroughs? I am guessing this 50k is a once in a lifetime thing - I'd hate to see it go down the toilet in a rental space. You'll dump half your money into construction costs and there is no way you will ever get that back.

No I've not gone to a bank yet. I have less than stellar credit. I have zero collateral. And I don't want to get shafted with a credit default swap interest rate balloon mortgage. Forgive me if I'm a touch afraid of becoming a banker's monkey. I understand that renting is not good. So I'm not moving forward until I feel like I know what I'm doing.

I guess if it's just a rehearsal space, maybe the costs won't be that bad, but a certain amount of soundproofing will be necessary, both within the space and for the sanity of your neighbors. That kind of construction does not come cheap.

I have a friend that works in construction who is going to come to my rehearsal space and work up a rough estimate based on the existing build. The people that run the place I rent built doublethick, insulated partition walls that are covered with what looks like a subfloor padding material. They probably didn't have to insulate their exterior walls since they're in an industrial area and the building is a single story.

Here's another thought - buy a small truck or van - make a mobile control room. Take the studio on the road...

That's an interesting idea. The only hesitation I have is that I've never had any experience with a recording studio on wheels. I've not even seen one. So with this I'd be getting into something unfamiliar.

[Judas Jetski]

Hmmm... if you've gotta rent, maybe you could look for a space that already sounds ***fantastic*** and spend the bulk of your dough on gear. That way you wouldn't have to worry about spending zillions of dollars making the place sound right, only to wind up out in the cold later.

I mean, you'd probably have to do a ton of poking around in strange places, clapping your hands and yelling while the real estate agent looks at you like you've gone completely mental... but who knows? You might find someplace really great... and hopefully in the middle of godforsaken nowhere, so there's no neighbors to complain. Then just "run what you brung."

*has bass line to "waiting room" stuck in head for next 18 hours*

[Snarl 12/8]

I'm pretty sure that if I was starting a studio with that kindof budget for gear that I'd build around one of those API modular consoles, a RADAR and a small but solid mic locker. Can that be done for $50k?

I'd also check out what sort of Fairlight I could get for that money. Just because I've been obsessed with them since I was 15.

[linus]

You have pretty much described my studio set-up.

I live in NYC and have a personal (read: hobby) space in Manhattan. I gave up on looking for "studio" spaces because they all fell into two categories:

1) an hourly timeblock rental (every Tues and Thurs from 7pm-11pm) having to pile up your gear in the corner and hope that nobody messes with it for $250-500 a month. Clearly this was NOT going to work.

2) a real "studio" space on my own but they were all $1500+ per month and I couldn't justify the cost.

So instead I looked for "storage" spaces and found one in the basement of a tenement apartment building. I've been in there 4 years. My monthly rent is $500. The room is 22' x 14' x 8'. It's just part of the basement that was walled off. The person in there before me was using it as an office. It has power and not much else. No adjustable heat but it's a constant, comfortable temp down there regardless of season. I installed a window AC unit for the hottest summer days but I rarely use it.

I built a sound proof booth in a corner and there are mic/line/speaker/power cables running into it. Its big enough for me to record individual instruments in there. I can even fit a kick/snare/hi hat/cymbal in there if I squeeze.

I also treated the room with Owen Corning 703 bass traps. All homemade but done right and the mixing position sounds good. My mixes translate to other places well.

For real drums I have brought my tracks to a real studio and just paid for a day. Costs far less than paying to have a place I don't need very often.

My set up works really well for me. It took months to get set up but has been worth the hassle. If you want a place where you can track a full band playing all at once you'll have to look in out of the way places if you want it to be affordable. Try Gowanus, Red Hook, Bushwick, East New York. Be prepared to make it into a fortress. Once people know what you have in there there will be attempts to break in. The security of my space is that no one knows I'm there. I'm not a commercial space and I work at reasonable volumes. No one on the street can hear anything from my space because of where/how it's situated.

As for gear... That will really be up to you and how you work. Do you want a DAW (Protools/Nuendo/Cubase/Logic/Reaper) system? Tape?

I run Nuendo on a Dell Server and it's lightning fast, rock stable, and quiet as a tomb. You can't hear it running at all.

As for mics/pre's/console/effects. 50K or 100K won't go as far as you think. If you start talking about U47s and Neve pre's it will go REALLY fast. But there is LOTS of great bang for the buck gear that will sound great for far less cash than the classic gear. Just search around here for what people seem to love.

I think the OktavaMod mics are a great bang for the buck. Lesser known mic pre's can sound incredible. Some I have (and like) are Yamaha PM1000's, Auditronic 110's, RCA BA-31a's, Quad8 line amps that were converted to pre's.

I do have a couple top shelf pieces that have been worth the cost: Marquette Audio racked Telefunken V72s, Brent Averill racked Neve 1272's, Coles 4038 ribbon mics. Sphere graphic EQs.

My console I got for a song. It's gritty and has a distinctive sound. I wish it had more headroom but it can do clean pretty well, and grind really well. I like the EQs. It's a ORAM BEQ 8 board. ORAM stuff isn't coveted the way some other brands are so they are pretty inexpensive for what they are.

The cost/value of my gear would add up to somewhere between 50K-100K depending on the market. You can see my gear list on my website below.

In NYC you'll have to be creative but it will be worth it. Let us know what you found, the decisions you made, and why. I learn a lot from the choices others make.

[Judas Jetski]

My real fantasy studio would cost a lot more than $50K. It would be suspended from a Zeppelin, for starters. And it'd have to be a big Zeppelin too, because the entire studio would have transparent glass floors.

[percussion boy]

My real fantasy studio would cost a lot more than $50K. It would be suspended from a Zeppelin, for starters. And it'd have to be a big Zeppelin too, because the entire studio would have transparent glass floors.

With scenic views through the floor of the plexiglass heated pool.

[Judas Jetski]

Yes! Definitely a heated pool with a plexiglass bottom. And contact mics in the plexiglass.

[percussion boy]

Exactly. Contact mics, SSL with coke table, champagne, rose garden, maybe a few live peacocks . . .

This thing is really shaping up.