a/d convertor or signal chain quality question

alJones · Post by **alJones** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:24 pm

hi,
Imagine my surprise when I found my new 7th circle N73 preamp did not sound noticeably different from my mackie preamp or firewire 1814 preamp.

I was using a friend's neumann tlm103 and was prepared to be amazed.

Could it be that my m-audio converters are not good enough to let me hear much of a difference? It could of course be that my ear is not sophisticated enough.

Here's my quesion: If I wanted to investigate better quality converters, how would I hook them up with my firewire 1814 and disallow the on-board a/d converters?

quite a question, thanks.

Al

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:31 pm

you'd connect the converters to your interface via the SPDIF or ADAT Optical connectors.

I'm surprised that you don't notice a difference, though... it could be your converters or your monitoring situation... but, most likely it's got more to do with not having the experience to be able to hear and exploit the difference in sound.

standup · Post by **standup** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:54 pm

Some really great sounds have been recorded with crappier equipment than a Neumann mic into a Neve-alike preamp, so I'm wondering if you're recording in a room that doesn't sound very good? Or listening back in a room that doesn't sound very good? Or have picked an unfortunate mic placement or something like that?

The Scum · Post by **The Scum** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:05 pm

Do you have a way to set it up such that you can hear the output of the preamp without the converters? Plug it into a mixer or headphone amp? Then you can compare and contrast how the converters influence it.

Also, you might try a dynamic mic. Modern condensor mics are made with amplifiers in them so that they can be less dependent on what they're plugged into. You might try a 57/58, if you've got one handy...they change recognizably when you plug them into a transformer input.

You might also experiment a little more with the gain vs. trim level on the N72...blast the gain, then turn it back down.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:52 pm

also maybe try recording a full songs worth of tracks through each pre and then compare the results.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Take a photo of Rupert Neve and tape that to your N72....that should help. Ohhh...and if he's wearing a fur coat or a bunny costume it will have more warmth.

seriously though....try monitoring through a non a/d source like a mixer like was suggested. My friend has the N72 in his SCA kit....and it's got more flavor that his bla modded 003. Don't know how those compare to the M-audio unit....but I'd imagine the 003's are as good of better.

alJones · Post by **alJones** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:08 am

thanks for the input guys, I will try your suggestions this weekend.

Al

Jon Nolan · Post by **Jon Nolan** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:18 am

also, what are you recording exactly? don't forget the source.

dynomike · Post by **dynomike** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:50 am

you didn't mention what your monitors are.

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:46 am

I find I don't hear a great deal of difference between pres, and/or converters during tracking. It's only once i start mixing and adding eq and compression that the less than flattering sound of some gear becomes obvious.

norsehorse · Post by **norsehorse** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:59 pm

Hello Al. I understand where you are coming from!

Before judging a new piece of gear, use it for a while and then try and GO BACK to your old pres. You should do this same process with new monitors too. Somehow stepping up is often barely noticeable, but once you're used to it, going back often seems drastic!

Sometimes it takes a while to learn and appreciate just what it was you payed for!

thecheat · Post by **thecheat** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:12 pm

In My Humble Experience....

Comparing these types of things tends to be a "Greater than the sum of its parts" kind of thing.

Whereas, a single inprovement in any part of signal chain tends to be fairly insignificant until you try to bring the rest of the elements into the production.

Except of course when i finished building my 1176s, they were slightly "OH MY GOD."

That being said, i feel that the sound quality question is as follows in order of importance.

Instrument (source)

Mic Placement

Mic

Preamp/Eq/Compressor

How you use it.

The day

The Tuning

The placement of Saturn in the Solar system

What time it was

If the band sucks or not

The Conveter.

Be Well

Chris

tweeksound · Post by **tweeksound** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:46 am

I'd have to revise your list a bit IMHO...

If the band sucks or not

The tuning

The room

Instrument (source)

Mic placement

Mic

Preamp

The conveter

How you use it

What time it was

The day

The placement of Saturn in the Solar system

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:17 am

tweeksound wrote:I'd have to revise your list a bit IMHO...

If the band sucks or not

The tuning

The room

Instrument (source)

Mic placement

Mic

Preamp

The conveter

How you use it

What time it was

The day

The placement of Saturn in the Solar system

I would only add - Before or after dinner

thecheat · Post by **thecheat** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:59 am

And dont forget, what you had for dinner!

I guess my point was, of all the things that go into the sound technically, IVE FOUND PERSONALLY, that the converter is not as important as most of the other things.

Chris

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a/d convertor or signal chain quality question

a/d convertor or signal chain quality question

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