Reputation vs. Know-it-alls

[Mankinda]

I'm not sure where to begin... I'm no Steve Albini, Chris Garges, Larry Crane (who else?s ass should I kiss here?) but for the last 15 years or so I have dedicated my free time, enthusiasm, sweat and patience to studying and practicing the art of recording and helping bands/musicians present their art in the best light possible through recording.

I?m not cocky; I like helping other musicians and share in the hopes that one day maybe their record might ?make it? with my name on it? and my wildest dreams will come true? (err something) but I?m perfectly satisfied with just making my ?clients? happy.

Lately it seems that the attitude of the musicians is ?well I have an MBox; I could do this? and ?yeah, but the way so-n-so records bass is like this _____?.

Suddenly every 12 year old with an MXL mic pack is an expert on recording!!

The real kicker is that I?m 100% in favor of empowering the average musician with the tools to record their art? and I love that you can achive great results (sometimes)through cheap gear and "happy accidents" ...so I?m conflicted.

I?ve found myself biting my tongue to avoid verbalizing my defensiveness and defending my approach/skills. But its wearing on me

How do you deal with these kinds comments and attitude? Do I just need to quit b*tching? (I know this is common to you all.)

Thanks for the therapy

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I think the trick is to be open to people's ideas. Maybe they do know the best way to record their instrument in the context of their music. Try it. If it's not working and you know how to do it better you should explain (in a neutral and nice way) what you don't like about the suggested approach and why your way might work better.
Most know it all types are just fellow recording nerds with less developed social skills. The only way to beat them is to know more than they do and be cool about it. if you show them you're willing to work with them instead of telling them how to do things they're more likely to respect you and open up to the possibility that their way isn't the only (or best) way.

[mwerden]

This is why I charge for my time. If someone wants to micromanage I will gladly take the time to show my version vs their version and they can pick one. I will make recommendations, but I really don't have a problem with a client dictating the direction of a project. I also try to have a few ways of getting to a particular destination, if someone doesn't like my favorite way maybe there's another method that they will like.

For the record, I kind of find the opposite to be true. I work with people of varying degrees of engineering knowledge and almost all of them call me with questions and/or work. And I call them for their areas of expertise. They don't pretend to know all kinds of things that they don't know, and hopefully I don't either. However, I work with the same few people for the most part, which I expect is the opposite from you/the majority of engineers.

Although, I can relate totally to your general point. I recently took a gig playing guitar for a singer and her "producer" (not paid per hour). At one point in the rehearsal she thought what I was playing sounded wrong so I started going through the chords trying to figure out what she was hearing. Turned out she didn't like having the 3rd of the chord on top of the particular voicing I was playing. God that pissed me off.

To sum up: bitch all you want so you can keep your game face on when you're working. And look for better people to work with. And don't take gigs for a per project rate.

[chris harris]

You still have to earn their trust.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

For the record, I kind of find the opposite to be true.

me too.

God that pissed me off.

how come? that doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me. maybe the third on top was conflicting with the vocal melody and stuck out to her in a weird way.

[Shane Michael Rose]

i am 100% confident that the guy with the mbox isn't totally sure about his recording techniques. he wants to be as good as the professional, in the same way that he wants his band to be as good as his favorite band.

i think if you put yourself in a public positions as an expert, and uphold that with awesome recordings, the position of an expert will often trump that of an amateur.

[mwerden]

how come? that doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me. maybe the third on top was conflicting with the vocal melody and stuck out to her in a weird way.

I didn't really put in all the relevant details. This is not a case of the third conflicting, trust me. It's a case of a singer who literally doesn't know the difference between a verse and chorus. Or the difference between a chorus and a bridge. There were plenty of other arrangement problems that the band was trying to deal with that were way more important than the top note in the guitar on the b6 chord.

Anyway, I played the same thing 30 seconds earlier and it was fine. It was only when she got insecure that she needed to nitpick. Guess you had to be there.

[cgarges]

I'm no Steve Albini, Chris Garges, Larry Crane (who else?s ass should I kiss here?)...

Now THAT'S a funny way to start a topic!

People are people. There are cool people and obnoxious people and humble people and arrogant people and patient people and impatient people and awesome people and total jackasses. This is true in all walks of life. I can spend plenty of time complaining about the dude a few years back who wanted to know if it was possible to make a record without ProTools and someone with more experience than me can complain about the fact that I'm making a living recording people or moderating a recording forum.

If it's not this, it's something else. ("Man, how can those guys get so many gigs and not be able to properly count off a tune that's in 6/8?" "Why do those guys get all the good press? They don't know any chords past the first two pages of the Mel Bay books." etc.)

I used to get really bent out of shape about that kind of stuff. I still do from time to time, but less so than I used to. It's not going away any time soon. I will say that in the last few years, I've seen more of a balance than I thought I might. Sure, I've lost work to people who are convinced that spending money on a commercial studio with an experienced engineer is silly, but I've also gotten a lot of work from people who've been there and realized that some things get a lot easier of you can pay someone else to do it.

All you can do is try your best to do a good job and be cool to people. I like that sometimes people come in now with some kind of technical suggestions that they might not have had a few years back and I like that sometimes people get excited about seeing me do something that they wouldn't have cared about a few years back. I like the interaction when it benefits the project overall. Like I said earlier, occasionally, you're gonna get total assholes, but that's nothing new. Just try to be a cool and do a good job.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Mankinda]

...you're right... thanks for the replies... and the ego-check. I honestly love music and want these musicians to succeed...

and if I was in the studio with any of you, I'd shut up and watch..and take notes, because I respect all time, practice, studying, and effort that it took you to master your craft... to some folks these days, all that effort seems to get overlooked and taken for granted...

I think I just needed to hear that its just the way it is and that you, too, have these experiences with knowitalls and have learned how to gracefully bite your tongue and put on your game face.

[chris harris]

All you can do is try your best to do a good job and be cool to people. I like that sometimes people come in now with some kind of technical suggestions that they might not have had a few years back and I like that sometimes people get excited about seeing me do something that they wouldn't have cared about a few years back. I like the interaction when it benefits the project overall. Like I said earlier, occasionally, you're gonna get total assholes, but that's nothing new. Just try to be a cool and do a good job.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Hell yeah.

[CurtZHP]

Suddenly every 12 year old with an MXL mic pack is an expert on recording!!

Reminds me of the time I was visiting my old high school for a "career day." I was there telling the seniors about radio engineering. Some kid came up to me and, I kid you not, introduced himself as a producer.

I bit my tongue, nodded and smiled. What I really wanted to do was say, "Producer of what? Pimples?"

[AstroDan]

I think the young'uns today just have so much information at the disposal, they kind of don't need to learn from some engineer. If some kid comes to you for recording, he's probably Googled and hit every forum on his iPhone before he enters your door and thinks he's got techniques down and probably just wants to share that he has learned this. Of course it's frustrating for us who've been doing it in the real world for 15 odd years, dragging 4 tracks and 57's to filthy basement gigs for no money.

That's why you charge. I'm sure doctors go through the same thing nowadays with patients coming in after being on the web thinking they know what their ailments are. Except instead of throwing down their tongue supressor and snarling they just patronize and make jokes because he's getting $300 for that conversation.

[HotRats]

In my (not so long) expirence as professional engineer I've noticed that most of the guys with an Mbox who think that pay for a recording studio is stupid are the ones who don't belive that "success" is a matter of putting time, sweat and money on the table, no matter what.

I mean, there are a lot of guys who don't belive in what they do enough to invest somenting in it, to risk something.

I belive is way better work with artists who really belive in what they do and try do it at their best with the money, time and help (included the one we can give) they have at disposal.

[@?,*???&?]

In my (not so long) expirence as professional engineer I've noticed that most of the guys with an Mbox who think that pay for a recording studio is stupid are the ones who don't belive that "success" is a matter of putting time, sweat and money on the table, no matter what.

I mean, there are a lot of guys who don't belive in what they do enough to invest somenting in it, to risk something.

I belive is way better work with artists who really belive in what they do and try do it at their best with the money, time and help (included the one we can give) they have at disposal.

Hey! The young man from Italy shares my view!

[HotRats]

Thanx for the young