tascam ms 16 help--punch ins

ceylon · Post by **ceylon** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:47 pm

punching in is no problem, but punching out always leaves a noticeable gap between old and new. basically, punching out is not possible unless there's a good blank space, like a comfortable distance between lines for the lead vocals.

what the hell?

woodhenge · Post by **woodhenge** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:13 pm

You're making me miss my old Tascam!

The glitch is caused by the gap between the erase head and the record head. The faster the tape machine is (or the closer the heads are together), the less of a dropout you'll have. About the only ways around this are to run it as fast as it'll go and strategically plan your tracks to allow for punch-outs. Kind-of the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

ceylon · Post by **ceylon** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:04 pm

thanks for the really prompt reply, my friend. this thing sounds great. really good. using a ramsa board (20 channel 8 bus) and basic mics. shit, using some cheap-ass mics, too...those superlux eco-88's are a ton better than sm 58's and only cost $10-20 used.

so, with this punch in/out problem, why do i not have the problem punching in? only punching out there is a gap.

woodhenge · Post by **woodhenge** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:16 pm

When you punch in on an analog recorder, there is a natural "crossfade" between your old and new take due to the same gap between heads. (The record head starts recording to a spot that the erase head hasn't erased yet.)

Generally, I always tried to track to the end of the tune if I had to punch in (eg. a busy guitar part or drums, etc...) unless there were natural spaces in the part being played. I did that for so long that I still tend to operate that way on a DAW... course of habit, I guess!

The good news is that if you follow this m.o., you can always punch in if a mistake happens later on as you roll. All part of the fun!

Nick Franklin · Post by **Nick Franklin** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:50 am

Sometimes if you punch in on a guitar solo or organ or something you get some pretty funky crossfades that actually work. Just add sweeping panning for some Hendrix time!

permanent hearing damage · Post by **permanent hearing damage** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:41 pm

yeah, this is just how these guys work. you just have to learn to time it well for vocals. after a few years, unless stuff really overlapped, i could sneak it out between lines/phrases pretty easily. you will get used to it. guitars and bass are far trickier. you really need a break in the signal.

79_Limited · Post by **79_Limited** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:48 pm

+1 I miss my old MS16 too

As far as the punch outs I never heard much of an issue once the entire mix was going. Vox were the toughest though.

Great sounding recorder though. What I miss most about the old MS 16 is if a channel become flaky you could pull the card and blow on it (like the old Nintendo games) reinsert and you were back in business.

woodhenge · Post by **woodhenge** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:04 pm

That's it... My wife is gonna kill me, but I'm gonna buy another analog deck on ebay!

79_Limited · Post by **79_Limited** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:08 am

woodhenge wrote:That's it... My wife is gonna kill me, but I'm gonna buy another analog deck on ebay!

I gotta say the Otari MTR 90's sure have attractive prices right now. One sold here locally a few weeks ago without remote for $1,200. I have seen clean examples for as little as $2,500 including the remote.

woodhenge · Post by **woodhenge** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:13 pm

I saw both a Sony and MCI 24-tracks on ebay this morning... very tempting! Of course, then I'd have to find a nice vintage console to go with it... and add on a new wing to my studio just to put it all in. I'm sure she'd LOVE that!

But, I really miss the smell of fresh tape in the morning!

Zygomorph · Post by **Zygomorph** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:17 am

I've heard that it can help somewhat to press the Reverse button instead of Stop, as this *may* stop the tape (from moving over the erase head) faster.

woodhenge · Post by **woodhenge** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:02 pm

Zygomorph wrote:I've heard that it can help somewhat to press the Reverse button instead of Stop, as this *may* stop the tape (from moving over the erase head) faster.

I think you'd be better off hitting stop, but there STILL will be a gap. What's erased is erased. Changing the direction of the deck while recording won't change this fact, but it may have other serious repercussions!

ceylon · Post by **ceylon** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:19 am

man, this was super helpful. there is definitely a learning curve to time punch outs between vocal lines--that one is tough. this thing sounds really really good.

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tascam ms 16 help--punch ins

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