Getting that Kick to Cut

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:20 pm

So I am sure this is common process everyone goes through but I?m looking for help.

So it?s very difficult too make the kick drum present in limited playback situations. (Ear buds, laptop speakers, ect)

I find it easier with rock because of the click (2k or so) in the attack of the beater, but as for other styles of music, it?s very, very difficult.

I have tried adding a little bump between 125 Hz and 175 Hz knowing that can be the limitation of many small speakers, but then it muddies up the bass guitar, and the lower notes of the piano.

Any ideas?

caffiend2049 · Post by **caffiend2049** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:34 pm

I'm far from a pro....but I'd try maybe notching out a frequency in the bass that corresponds to your bump in the kick to allow a little room.

Maybe a little sidechain action in the bass compression so it opens up some room for the kick?

Those are the first ideas that come to my mind.

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:45 pm

mult the kick - gate and compress hard - emphasize frequencies you are lacking - 2-4 k maybe a little higher too 10k. blend in to taste behind your "main" kick.

ust a bit is often the trick.

adds a little definition and presence.

CurtZHP · Post by **CurtZHP** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:58 pm

Also don't forget to keep in mind the phase relationship between kick and bass guitar. With styles of music where the beater click is not as pronounced, try flipping the phase of the kick to see if that keeps it from getting buried under the bass. If flipping the phase makes it worse, than that wasn't the problem.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:14 pm

Use compression to alter the envelope of the BD. Use subtractive EQ on some other sources to create a hole for the BD to occupy.

transient camp · Post by **transient camp** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:51 pm

I really like Stillwell's Transient Monster for this.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:06 pm

What kind of beater did the drummer use?

Felt is the kiss of death for rock music.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:05 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:Felt is the kiss of death for rock music.

Tell that to Dave Mattacks.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

thecheat · Post by **thecheat** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:08 pm

In my experience, a little 10-12k with the right shelving (or bell curve) eq lets me hear alot more of the airaround the kick drum, which gives it attack and depth without bringing out the plasticy ness of the drum.

Is that a word? Plasticyness?

anyway the obnoxious 1-3k range where the drum cuts well but, just to me sounds like a crappy sample.

ALso, filter, yes filter, the super lows, like 30-50hz.

But what do i know.

Chris

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:43 pm

cgarges wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Felt is the kiss of death for rock music.
Tell that to Dave Mattacks.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

did dave mattacks play on a lot of rock albums? i am thinking nick drake - fairport convention....

great drummer - don't get me wrong. but rock?

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:53 pm

First of all, the OP is talking about getting the kick to cut in non-rock stuff. So the felt in rock JR thing is a non-sequitor.

Some panning might help. Sometimes I'll mic the beater side and the reso side and I'll pan them wide, but I'll adjust the relative volumes until the kick "feels" centered again. Usually more reso.

Then, with the bass guitar I'll EQ or compress out the attack on the DI, but leave the mic'ed signal attacky. Then I'll pan those wide with the clicky bass opposite the beater kick track.

It gives you a huge, but not too clicky kick drum sound in the headphones too, like you're inside there. For kick on non-aggressive music I think it's OK if it's sortof more felt than heard sometimes too. Even in earbuds this is possible if you play with panning and low-cutting and eqing in that air and all that shit.

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:30 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:
Some panning might help. Sometimes I'll mic the beater side and the reso side and I'll pan them wide, but I'll adjust the relative volumes until the kick "feels" centered again. Usually more reso.

pan them wide left and right? that's crazy. i gotta try that.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:14 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:First of all, the OP is talking about getting the kick to cut in non-rock stuff. So the felt in rock JR thing is a non-sequitor.

Note: the style of music of the original post was never mentioned.

As for optimal EQ, consider what the engineers have done to the Beta 52:

http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req1001/beta52.html

It's called 'shaped frequency response' because it makes the kick drum stand out more compared to a flat frequency response mic.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:16 am

cgarges wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:Felt is the kiss of death for rock music.
Tell that to Dave Mattacks.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Dave who?

A National Acrobat · Post by **A National Acrobat** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:57 am

Sound replace it.

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Getting that Kick to Cut

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