Building My New Studio

[digitaldrummer]

I've been working with a builder on some plans to build a studio on my lot.
I've got a pretty good amount of space so not too worried about external noise. Construction will likely be on a concrete slab (as is everything in my area) with brick exterior. and will be a single room (possibly a small vocal/iso room in one corner). I am looking for some advice/opinions on the following:

1. should I spring for 2x6" studs instead of 2x4"? With the brick (and likely no windows in the place) will it buy me anything? Or would 2x4 and double sheetrock on the inside be a better investment? My builder also mentioned this -- www.foamlaminates.com -- anybody ever seen this used for studio construction? I'm not sure how it compares price-wise either. I'm guessing that stud is still probably cheaper and I'm not sure how styrofoam can be considered "green".

2. I'm considering dimensions of 10' H x 19'W x 25'L - I know this is not one of the common or "golden" ratios but still a volume of 4750 cf - and possibly more if I go for the vaulted ceilings (which would put the peak at around 16-17' ft. high). Are these dimensions going to cause me serious problems though?

the purpose is mainly for recording drums, but also for mixing and then general project recording. I'm currently in a much smaller space (with lots of bass traps) but it works OK. this new space doesn't have to allow recording of drums 24 x7 either but I'm hoping to make it a little more soundproof than my current spot (bedroom sized room).

ok, thats it for now. if this goes anywhere then I'll post more info, pix, all that stuff too. I have to get some bids though first and see if I still want to do it.

thanks,

Mike

[signorMars]

Plug your dimensions into this:

http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm

Tons of info about your theoretical room. It seems like your dimensions work out pretty well according to his calculator, but I'm not even close to an expert. It looks like you'll need some bass trapping (no surprise) and then just tweak the reverb time with absorption, etc.

P.S. I'm jealous. I'm dying for a dedicated recording space. The living room sounds great, but it's a pain to setup and teardown every day every time I record.

[trodden]

Mike,

Interesting topic. Would like to hear more on costs and such, especially for the basic shell (slab and brick/concete block walls, and roof)..

Having a hard time finding a place so just building it is starting to look better. This being if i still end up buying a place with my sister sometime around the corner.

Thinking about similar size, one room to do overdubs and mix, but track a full band if I have to.

Looking forward to more from you.

[JWL]

Mike, Congrats on your build! Exciting stuff.

Concrete slab and brick is a GREAT way to go... lots of mass = lots of soundproofing.

When you build the inner walls make sure it is a ONE LEAF design, so that combined with the brick wall you will have a 2-leaf design. I'd use 2 layers of sheetrock with green glue between for the one leaf, leave the studs exposed on the other side. You can either put the double-rock on the inside of the new studio, or on the outside of the studio, leaving the studs exposed inside the room.... great way to incorporate treatment into the room design.

1. should I spring for 2x6" studs instead of 2x4"? With the brick (and likely no windows in the place) will it buy me anything? Or would 2x4 and double sheetrock on the inside be a better investment?

I'd probalby stick with 2x4s and double-rock with green glue. That, combined with a brick outer shell should pretty much kick ass.

2. I'm considering dimensions of 10' H x 19'W x 25'L - I know this is not one of the common or "golden" ratios but still a volume of 4750 cf - and possibly more if I go for the vaulted ceilings (which would put the peak at around 16-17' ft. high). Are these dimensions going to cause me serious problems though?

You should be fine there. The thing is to make sure that one dimension is not an even multiple of the other. The closest "good dimension" I know of would be to make the width 15', this gets you 1:1.5:2.5 (just like the Parthenon!) which has good performance. It was VERY popular back in the day, still works well.

Use that extra 4' for a hallway/soundlock/storage, or even an amp iso booth or two.

Note that if you vault the ceiling then all bets are off....

[digitaldrummer]

thanks!

[norton]

Stay away from the ISP or faom laminates.
While they are awesome for thermal insulation they are
MISERABLE at sound isolation. Really amazingly bad at
it.

Good luck with the build!

[digitaldrummer]

thanks for the tip on the foam - I was skeptical about those anyway.

I'm also look at these:

www.mrslim.com

they do both heating and cooling and claim to be very quiet. You don;t need all of the duct work, etc. I think I saw something similar at a hotel once but don't recall it being that ultra quiet. Anybody got any experience wiht these? I'm going to try to find a local dealer to see if I can see (and hear) one locally.


edit: here are the specs on the sound-- http://www.mrslim.com/CustomerCare/faqD ... ?FAQID=132

hmmm. not sure that "quieter than a window unit" is going to cut it...

Mike

[MoreSpaceEcho]

You can either put the double-rock on the inside of the new studio, or on the outside of the studio, leaving the studs exposed inside the room.... great way to incorporate treatment into the room design.

please forgive me if this question is as stupid as i think it is, but if you're dealing with a fixed outer wall, and wanted to make the inside wall "inside out"...uh, how would you do it? i can't wrap my miniscule brain around how you would get the sheetrock up on the inside wall.

also, say you did make all the inside walls inside out, can you elaborate on how you would incorporate the treatments around the room? and have the finished thing look nice?

i'm considering building a new room at my place and this is all good food for thought.

thanks!

[trodden]

You can either put the double-rock on the inside of the new studio, or on the outside of the studio, leaving the studs exposed inside the room.... great way to incorporate treatment into the room design.

please forgive me if this question is as stupid as i think it is, but if you're dealing with a fixed outer wall, and wanted to make the inside wall "inside out"...uh, how would you do it? i can't wrap my miniscule brain around how you would get the sheetrock up on the inside wall.

also, say you did make all the inside walls inside out, can you elaborate on how you would incorporate the treatments around the room? and have the finished thing look nice?

i'm considering building a new room at my place and this is all good food for thought.

thanks!

DAMNIT SCOTT, GET THE BOOK ALREADY... is probably the answer... just a hunch.... i haven't gotten "the book" yet either... glad you asked the question and not I...heh

edit. OOPS, READ THE FORUM SCOTT! is the answer.

[llmonty]

believe you place the drywall in place on the framing while it is on the ground, and then you lift into place, position and secure.

I have the book, not sure it is in it. It's a good book, but primarily geared towards basement studios, so I have had a number of open questions about aspects associated with a separate structure.

digitaldrummer -- we should share some ideas -- see my thread about the studio I am about to build in my backyard. A contractor I met with yesterday talked about a brick veneer -- which is a full brick, but only 1 course. He was estimating it would be close to the price of pre-painted hardiplank/panel which I was thinking of using. I am forgetting the construction technique, but it includes the use of a small airgap -- wonder if this would create a '3 leaf system'.

Anyhow, I am thinking now of going with a 1 wall design (with lots of mass) vs. 2 since I really don't want to float another ceiling -- which would change the ceiling pitches we have been working on. Also learned that since it is separate a monolithic slab seems to be fine, vs. a separate foundation and slab.

[JWL]

believe you place the drywall in place on the framing while it is on the ground, and then you lift into place, position and secure.

Yes. The inside-out walls are generally built in modular 4x8 sections, lifted into to place, fastened together, etc. Once all the sections are in place, then get bizzy with some caulk to seal everything up airtight.

Inside-out walls are NOT in Rod's book. I first encountered them on John Sayers' forum.

[trodden]

believe you place the drywall in place on the framing while it is on the ground, and then you lift into place, position and secure.

Yes. The inside-out walls are generally built in modular 4x8 sections, lifted into to place, fastened together, etc. Once all the sections are in place, then get bizzy with some caulk to seal everything up airtight.

Inside-out walls are NOT in Rod's book. I first encountered them on John Sayers' forum.

cool, good to know.

[rhythm ranch]

2. I'm considering dimensions of 10' H x 19'W x 25'L - I know this is not one of the common or "golden" ratios but still a volume of 4750 cf - and possibly more if I go for the vaulted ceilings (which would put the peak at around 16-17' ft. high). Are these dimensions going to cause me serious problems though?

You should be fine there. The thing is to make sure that one dimension is not an even multiple of the other. The closest "good dimension" I know of would be to make the width 15', this gets you 1:1.5:2.5 (just like the Parthenon!) which has good performance. It was VERY popular back in the day, still works well.

Use that extra 4' for a hallway/soundlock/storage, or even an amp iso booth or two.

This makes no sense to me. You're suggesting that all three dimensions should be multiples of 5'???

I was going to suggest altering the height dimension to 11' to avoid the 5' multiple for the 10'height and the 25' length.

[trodden]

believe you place the drywall in place on the framing while it is on the ground, and then you lift into place, position and secure.

Yes. The inside-out walls are generally built in modular 4x8 sections, lifted into to place, fastened together, etc. Once all the sections are in place, then get bizzy with some caulk to seal everything up airtight.

Inside-out walls are NOT in Rod's book. I first encountered them on John Sayers' forum.

damn, i try to UTFSF at the sayers site, but "inside out walls" is too "general" and the search function won't find jack for me.. any suggestions?

[digitaldrummer]

digitaldrummer -- we should share some ideas -- see my thread about the studio I am about to build in my backyard. A contractor I met with yesterday talked about a brick veneer -- which is a full brick, but only 1 course. He was estimating it would be close to the price of pre-painted hardiplank/panel which I was thinking of using. I am forgetting the construction technique, but it includes the use of a small airgap -- wonder if this would create a '3 leaf system'.

What I understand is that the brick sits on a shelf that is part of the slab. It's not really connected to the frame. there is tyvek on the inside and then a small air-gap between the it and the brick. My builder is recommending 2x6" on 24" centers, thinking that will actually be stronger (than 2x4 with 16" centers) and ultimately use less wood cheaper and greener if it turns out to be true. So with double sheetrock on the inside and brick on the outside I think you get two-leaf?

llmonty--yes, I have been reading your thread too!

oh, and yes, my copy of the Rod Gervais book should be arriving any day now.

Mike