Go-to acoustic guitar mix techniques?

sad iron · Post by **sad iron** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:29 pm

I'm working on my own record right now and acoustic guitar figures heavily in the palate. The tunes range from Tom Petty-style rockers to atmospheric quiet stuff (Wilco-y) with some more 3/4 and 4/4 countryish/folky stuff thrown in, a la Van Morrison/Tom Waits. I'm looking to expand my mix techniques for ac gtr.

Anyone wanna share their go-to signal chains for any or all of these styles? I'm mixing in the box for now (logic with the Stillwell plugs and a few others), but have some outboard stuff as well. Be as prescriptive or as vague as you wish. I'm hoping this could be a cool archive of techniques not just for me but for anyone.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:27 pm

Totally depends on the song. Generally some high end shelving and compression is good. I've even used de-essers if the tracks were recorded harshly.

I tend to aim for good sounds going in, so I have less to do at mix time. This is true in general, but especially for acoustic guitar.

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:14 pm

sad iron wrote:I'm working on my own record right now and acoustic guitar figures heavily in the palate. The tunes range from Tom Petty-style rockers to atmospheric quiet stuff (Wilco-y) with some more 3/4 and 4/4 countryish/folky stuff thrown in, a la Van Morrison/Tom Waits. I'm looking to expand my mix techniques for ac gtr.

Anyone wanna share their go-to signal chains for any or all of these styles? I'm mixing in the box for now (logic with the Stillwell plugs and a few others), but have some outboard stuff as well. Be as prescriptive or as vague as you wish. I'm hoping this could be a cool archive of techniques not just for me but for anyone.

Sorry, but,

Without being able to listen to your guitar, it is quite impossible to give any advice.

You see, everything affects a guitar. humidity, temperature, microphone, the way the part was played, and more importantly, the actual final intent that was desired to get to.

In other words, you have a guitar , A, and you want it to fit into the song, B, so you need to do X to the guitar.

So, let's give a listen, shall we?

Cheers

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:11 am

This is probably equally useless since you are at mix stage.... sorry. But:

I have found that even more than other instruments the sound of your acoustic tracks relies so much more on where the mic is, what the mic is, and what the guitar is than anything that goes on in mixing. It seems when done well there is little to be done, when done poorly it is hard to save.

A couple of things I often do: Hi pass filter, or at least a -3 to -10 db shelf cutting whatever low frequencies might be appropriate. There is almost always some compression at work because I work digitally and a minimum of 1.5:1 typically seems necessary to keep the acoustic guitar in the picture through every chord and keep the harder strums from poking you in the eye.

I think the subtleties of compression are sometimes stronger felt on acoustic guitars, maybe even more so than vocals. It doesn't take an awful lot of compression before the entire timbre sounds very different and you get that squashed, kind of stylized sound. You might be going for that, I like my signal chain to sound more transparent on acoustic guitars. To approach this I usually either try a slightly higher ratio 3:1 or maybe 4:1 that is only grabbing at the louder hits, adjusting attack and release times for taste. Or I do something smaller like 1.4:1 and set the threshold a bit lower so the compressor is almost always working on the track.

Otherwise listen for what's missing. That is often harder to fix but sliding around a notch eq with a fairly narrow q might help you find a bit more of what you need, pick percussiveness somewhere in the highs, or the body of the chords anywhere in the mids, if they are lacking.

Sometimes no eq is the best eq.

Good luck.

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:40 am

everything!

opto compressors

vca compressors

eqs!

effects (reverbs - sans amps)!

by the sounds of the style you are doing - you might not want to go
too harsh on compression - opto may be more transparent. darker
eq settings (cutting down the real top top end - 14k and up). emphasizing
a little mids - 1k ballpark maybe.

hard to say - are your acoustics naturally really bright? or super dead
dark old school?

good luck

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:51 pm

Some stuff for what YMMV:

I frequently high-pass pretty steeply and shelf the very top.

I otherwise hate using EQ on an acoustic and prefer to just change mic position(s).

I seldom use compression but almost always use a limiter.

For my playing and in general, I prefer a flexible light pick (Dunlop .73mm nylon), especially for rhythm, as it seems to be a little smoother level-wise and even EQ-wise in the mix.

Don't discount crappy guitars; sometimes they record and fit the mix the best.

Finally, as I like a good stereo acoustic, I prefer to play and record the guitar while seated; I seem to get better imaging when in stereo, and I spill less drinks.

DupleMeter · Post by **DupleMeter** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:21 pm

I engage a low shelf at about -12dB/oct and slowly bring it up until I hear the guitar thin out...then back off a hair. That keeps the low end clean.

I prefer a good analog comp on acoustic and will usually lightly compress with an opto-comp as I print to disk. But...I'm not afraid to commit to a sound up front...that used to be the norm in this biz...now everyone wants options. So, if you would rather compress later (which I sometimes still would do for more effect) go ahead and keep it smooth a light. Add a 2nd comp if you want more character.

Also - I have never found a recorded acoustic guitar that couldn't use a little dip in the 750-800Hz range...they just seem to build up a resonance there and a little dip can open them up a lot.

And - as everyone else has been saying...hi-shelf boost. I start my around 5k with a top end shelving cut around 18k or so...it ends up resembling more of a baxandall curve than a true shelving EQ. Sounds much smoother to my ears.

Mark Kaufman · Post by **Mark Kaufman** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:48 pm

I won't pretend to be an expert on this, but I'll offer up the possibility of exploring your mic placement, as well as recording with two different mics and blending the sound.

Here's a great article...hope it's OK to cross-reference on this board:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug01/a ... tr0801.asp

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:29 pm

i get around having to shave off top by recording with dynamic or (less frequently) ribbon mics to start with.

get it happening as you put it down with the mix in mind.

this isn't really possible when you're mixing tracks someone else recorded, though.

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:15 am

This is more acoustic tracking advise...

VVV mentioned the light pick.

I keep a whole selection of picks nearby. Really depends on the part but if I was gonna generalize I use a lighter pick for 'strumming' and a heavier pick for parts that are more defined.

Also, picks warm up and can loose their tone as they heat up and get softer. Can't have too many picks!

****for mixing acoustic panning can be huge.
Couple obvious things.... If your drums are stereo and you have a strumming acoustic put it opposite the hi-hat. (aka 'hillbilly hi-hat)
When you have a sorta 'songwriter' guitar part I like to keep it pretty much up the middle w the vocal.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:49 am

Acoustic guitars don't need to always be big to work in a mix.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:58 am

at the risk of pissing all over another "go-to" thread, the only real solution is to dig in and listen very carefully to every song. If you're still tracking the acoustic guitar, get it to sound right from the beginning. If you're mixing, you need to decide first if there even IS a problem. If there is, you need to listen and listen and listen and determine EXACTLY what that problem is. Then, on a song by song and track by track basis, determine the best thing to try to remedy the exact problem you're having with each track.

I could easily say, "sure... cut some low end and your tracks will mix better." but, for all I know, you used a guitar, mic, mic position, pre-amp, or room that resulted in no low frequencies being recorded anyway. My advice wouldn't really be useful to you in that case.

So, LISTEN. And, then go from there.

sad iron · Post by **sad iron** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:17 am

I appreciate all the advice here. I think my request has been a little misinterpreted. I'm not really looking for problem solving. I'm getting sounds that I like, have been trying a bunch of different mics and placements, and have my own little bag of tricks that are in line with much of the advice given here (as well a a few more). I'm really interested in expanding my palate with other ideas and maybe providing a repository for other folks as well. I'm not asking for a primer or a how-to; I just want to know what others do with acoustic guitar, which is much of what I'm getting here.

So, signal chains in mixdown are interesting to me. Mic choices that folks have loved, too. Mic placements/techniques that have worked wonders; ditto. Panning suggestions like 'Scoe's: amen.

I'm not really in the mix phase of the record either. Sorry if I gave that impression. I'm still tracking (basics done and now I'm filling it out), but I'm trying to get things in the ballpark roughly sonically so i can move forward with a sense of what needs to be there next. I figure if I have total mix recall in the box, why not make as educated a choice as I can at every point in the process. If the tunes go in another direction I can always tear it down and build it back up and still have the old mix saved. It ain't like it used to be back in the days when I had a board.

Thanks agin folks. I just wanted to clarify/redirect.

Dakota · Post by **Dakota** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:30 am

Add to the above good words:

Ask yourself if anything about the low body resonant frequencies of the acoustic track are too resonant, peaky, woofy or jumping out. If you are steeply hi-passing and throwing out the lows anyway, then this may not need done.

If you are keeping the lows, acoustic guitars usually have a lowest formant somewhere around 100hz give or take, and then a few more formants between there and 300/400. Sometimes those couple badly with a small room, making the peaks even more exaggerated. These are different for every guitar, fish around to find them case by case.

So, narrow Q cuts down there if needed. Don't overdo it or it sucks the soul out.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:40 am

i really really like adding a room mic to the close mic. tracked a guy this weekend who had a beautiful old guild...i ended up with an AT4040 either at the 12th fret or on the body, depending on if i wanted brighter or darker for each particular tune, and then just had my usual earthworks on the floor, a couple feet in front of him. pan the close mic left and the room mic right and it was damn glorious if i do say so myself.

acoustic guitar in a crowded rock mix is one of the few times i like a 57.

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Go-to acoustic guitar mix techniques?

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