Bass with a pick..more like an ice pick!
- Ryan Silva
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Bass with a pick..more like an ice pick!
So this band I'm doing overdubs for at the moment has one of these guitarist turned bass players, and he likes to play with a pick. Nothing wrong with that per say, he is just not very good at controlling the dynamics of a bass guitar yet. His rhythm is spot on but it's like listening to marbles falling on glass. I have had limited experience with picked bass, but this is what I tried to tame the madness.
First I switched his Ibanez (not sure which one) with an Ame. P-Bass. The passive pick ups tamed his attack a little, but I then had to turn down his tone on the bass to get a little closer. Finally I patched a 160a after the UA m610 (DI) just to crush the really out of hand peaks.
I am still having a hard time fitting these parts into fairly normal rock mixes.
Any advice?
thanks
First I switched his Ibanez (not sure which one) with an Ame. P-Bass. The passive pick ups tamed his attack a little, but I then had to turn down his tone on the bass to get a little closer. Finally I patched a 160a after the UA m610 (DI) just to crush the really out of hand peaks.
I am still having a hard time fitting these parts into fairly normal rock mixes.
Any advice?
thanks
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MoreSpaceEcho
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I used to use felt picks on bass. They're basically a thick, stiff piece of felt in the shape of a guitar pick. They don't sound as "clicky" as a plastic pick. They downside is that after a bit of playing, your instrument is covered in white lint, as the strings scrape the tiny fibers off the pick.
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Well a limiter for the dynamics, but for the ice pick sutff have you tried a good de-esser or multiband compressor focusing in on the freq. that are offensive? Or for that matter have you figured out which frequencies are out of hand and tried some judicious eq?
That would be my suggestion. I usually have the opposite problem with basses that are too round and don'thave enough bite, so I am probably not much help but that is where I would start.
That would be my suggestion. I usually have the opposite problem with basses that are too round and don'thave enough bite, so I am probably not much help but that is where I would start.
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- JohnDavisNYC
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- Ryan Silva
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You know I forgot to mention this, but I tried pluging in a PSP Vintage Warmer v.2 and it was starting to get there but not perfect. Maybe i'll run it through a Big Muff and then try to limit the hell out of the original source and see what I get.toaster3000 wrote:SVT!!!! overdrive is pretty crucial for rock pick bass, especially if someone's technique isn't so hot.
a DI into a 160 is great if the player has a great sound and control, but it can be a bit unruly... i find the 160 isn't so good for TONS of compression...
john
Thanks
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MoreSpaceEcho
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I just went through the same thing last night, actually... The bassist was using a heavy pick, so I switched him to a felt uke pick (!?!?!) and it sounded like fingers again. Of course, if it's already tracked, that won't fix things.
I've had pretty good luck eliminating the 'twang' of picked bass by rolling off things using a high shelving eq starting around 2k or so, after the vintage warmer plugin.
I've had pretty good luck eliminating the 'twang' of picked bass by rolling off things using a high shelving eq starting around 2k or so, after the vintage warmer plugin.
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- Snarl 12/8
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My thoughts are play him through a 15" speaker, those naturally attenuate the highs. (Maybe reamp if you've already tracked?) The other thing I'd try is stuffing some felt under the strings right by the bridge a la that Kay famous bass lady who's full name is eluding me right now?
Edit: after a bit of googling...
Carol Kaye
Edit: after a bit of googling...
Carol Kaye
I like the Big Muff plan!
Aww yes, distortion, I hadn't thought of that for taming bad dynamics but that would certainly work wouldn't it. I reamped a bass track last night through my Holy Stain pedal and it sounded great. My only decision was wether to use the fuzz or the overdrive!
Aww yes, distortion, I hadn't thought of that for taming bad dynamics but that would certainly work wouldn't it. I reamped a bass track last night through my Holy Stain pedal and it sounded great. My only decision was wether to use the fuzz or the overdrive!
[Asked whether his shades are prescription or just to look cool]
Guy: Well, I am the drummer.
Guy: Well, I am the drummer.
I am right there with you, I use the 160 a lot as a tracking compressor but it doesn't really stop too much on the wild dynamics, especially those quick spikes! Sounds great on vocals though. . .toaster3000 wrote:SVT!!!! overdrive is pretty crucial for rock pick bass, especially if someone's technique isn't so hot.
a DI into a 160 is great if the player has a great sound and control, but it can be a bit unruly... i find the 160 isn't so good for TONS of compression...
john
[Asked whether his shades are prescription or just to look cool]
Guy: Well, I am the drummer.
Guy: Well, I am the drummer.
I can relate - our bass player is a former guitarist playing an active Ibanez bass. Similar problem - great rythm, sense of melody, everything, but sometimes the clicking ice pick sound dominates.
Anyway, don't laugh at my suggest below, but I've had pretty good luck running the bass tracks through the (free) Free Amp 3 VST plugin, from Fretted Synth.
http://frettedsynth.home.att.net/
It's an ok VST for guitars, but it is excellent for bass.
Try the "Ampelian" setting (to do the Ampeg thing Toaster mentioned above), and use a 15" cabinet setting (like Snarl mentions).
That combo seems to work wonders for us. (if you try it, you may want to turn down the "Chub" setting, to clear up the sound a little).
Give that a try and see if it doesn't help a lot.
Anyway, don't laugh at my suggest below, but I've had pretty good luck running the bass tracks through the (free) Free Amp 3 VST plugin, from Fretted Synth.
http://frettedsynth.home.att.net/
It's an ok VST for guitars, but it is excellent for bass.
Try the "Ampelian" setting (to do the Ampeg thing Toaster mentioned above), and use a 15" cabinet setting (like Snarl mentions).
That combo seems to work wonders for us. (if you try it, you may want to turn down the "Chub" setting, to clear up the sound a little).
Give that a try and see if it doesn't help a lot.
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- iamthecosmos
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Re: Bass with a pick..more like an ice pick!
I'm about the same as that guy (guitarist turned bassist, with pick) but I've never managed to sound that bad. The thick 'bass' picks are rubbish, I stick with a guitar pick that I push taut with my thumb.Ryan Silva wrote:So this band I'm doing overdubs for at the moment has one of these guitarist turned bass players, and he likes to play with a pick. Nothing wrong with that per say, he is just not very good at controlling the dynamics of a bass guitar yet. His rhythm is spot on but it's like listening to marbles falling on glass. I have had limited experience with picked bass, but this is what I tried to tame the madness.
First I switched his Ibanez (not sure which one) with an Ame. P-Bass. The passive pick ups tamed his attack a little, but I then had to turn down his tone on the bass to get a little closer. Finally I patched a 160a after the UA m610 (DI) just to crush the really out of hand peaks.
I am still having a hard time fitting these parts into fairly normal rock mixes.
Any advice?
thanks
My ideal setup was a 60's Fender Jazz through an SVT Classic with an SVT-410HLF. Maybe with a little bit of DI but not much, and a fair chunk of gain on the amp. I think Big Muff would be excessive, but it depends on the material. A Rat with a line selector to mix in some clean in is usually pretty sweet for distortion.
The Vintage Warmer didn't really work for me. For software comps the UAD Fairchild is ace, though for a cheaper alternative the T-Racks version isn't bad. For hardware, a Federal 864u Limiter worked well. Something like and RNLA maybe, as long as it's a fairly meaty compressor. I find the DBX quite brittle.
- dubh dubh dubh
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hey as a couple people mentioned, a de-esser can work miracles. Especially one that lets you monitor the side-chain(the frequencies you're whackin'). Makes it easy to home in on the most troublesome ones and push them down, without sacrificing tone. Of course it'll vary, but I've had good luck with setting the de-ess freq to around 3kHz, and sometimes will process that out, or run a 2nd de-ess around 1kHz if finger sliding/fret noise is an issue too. AH but def. a Big Muff can smooth the tone, with or without adding its distortion. Also, transient altering plugins like bittersweet, transient designer, etc can be used to soften up the note attacks, from subtle to dub-o-rama smooth, like the pick was made from a large, wet dish sponge
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Word up.SVT!!!! overdrive is pretty crucial for rock pick bass, especially if someone's technique isn't so hot.
It's pretty common, for hard rock, to record the bassist through a DI, an SVT with 8x10 cab, and some kind of more distorted guitar amp setup at the same time. A little dirt is a good thing.
I play bass, with fingers and picks. When I use a pick a like a fairly thick guitar pick, like a Fender heavy.
Players with less experience may play too close to the bridge, which will thin out the bass tone, contributing to the ice-pick. You'll get a more rounded tone playing in between the bridge and the neck, right in the middle. On a P-Bass, try playing right over the pickup.
If he's really horrible, you could always replace the bass tracks when he's not around and see if he notices!
-Chris D.
I've had the same issue with mixing some live recorded tracks. I ran the DI track back through a Sansamp Bass Driver, into a dbx 160a and did some pretty heavy eq, especially in cutting the mids and high freq where most of the "clang" of the strings was.
I like a Rat for beefing up a bass track a lot more than a Big Muff, personally. That's more my opinion as a bassist.
I like a Rat for beefing up a bass track a lot more than a Big Muff, personally. That's more my opinion as a bassist.
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