help me do a fender downgrade.

[nordberg]

i have a twin reverb (reissue) and to quote back to the future, "i'm sorry guys, but you're just too darn loud." i love the sound but i can only turn it up to about two and it's starting to hurt my back.

anyone have experience with the twin and deluxe?

i play with the bright switch off, treble on 7, mid on 10, and bass on 4 typically.

i'm a bit wary of the lack of a mid knob... has it ever been an issue with any deluxe folks out there?

any recommendations would be helpful. thanks.

-mike

ps. i can't go too small as i have to compete with another guitarist with a MIG100, and organist with a JC-120, a full stack bass and a ripping drummer.

pss. i need the two channels because i run my synth/vocoder through channel 1.

[ckeene]

If you love the sound, are there any tricks you can can do to attenuate it without getting a different amp? Although Fender made a few different AB763 models, the Twin is kind of its own special thing, and if you get a good one, it's worth holding onto. I think I'd be a little nervous trying to pit a deluxe against the band you described. Can you pull two of the power tubes, or borrow a power soak? If your speakers are really kicking butt, you might even try putting in less efficient drivers in.

[TV Lenny]

Pull the two OUTSIDE power tubes. That should knock your output wattage down a lot. You could also experiment with slightly lower rated preamp tubes like a 12AU7. I have a 1974 Silver Face Twin that I love and have modded it to Black Face. Great amp and VERY loud but if you pull the tubes, you should find it much easier to bear.

I'd be very cautious about power soak units. Do some research because some of them have been known to blow out output tranny's and tubes.

Good luck!
Tom

[AstroDan]

I went from a Twin to a Deluxe, but I only have to compete with a loud drummer and half-stack bass rig. I get the Deluxe to about 3 where it "pushes" and breaks up nicely, but still have to aim the amp away from the fellas because it's pretty loud.

So the Twin to Deluxe scenario worked for me, but it sounds like you have quite the armada to contend with. I'd say with adequate mic'ing in a decent room the Deluxe would be your better option - but if you were playing a tiny place with no p.a. you would be hurtin'.

[nordberg]

i've done the pull the tubes out thing before. at the first show i used it afterward, the channels seemed to be draining power from one another. i play guitar and keys almost simultaneously, and when i'd go to keys it might be very loud or very quiet. the same when going back to guitar. it was as if the output was constant, but see-sawing back and forth. i immediately put them back in and apologised to the crowd.

[Jeff White]

Although I love me some vintage Twins, the vintage Super Reverbs are more my speed. Not quite as loud, amazingly sweet tone from right out of the gate, breakup if you need it at higher volumes, and they play nice with a tube screamer. My modified 1977 is my favorite amplifier ever.

Jeff

[nordberg]

oh god i love my friend's super reverb. '67 and oh so good. while i admit the super reverb would probably be best for me wattage-wise, the second criterion of my poor back would not like that at all!

[roygbiv]

Does your Twin have casters? That can help with the back thing.

I do the keyboard/guitar thing using a 1970 Pro Reverb, which is about the size of a Twin but only 40 Watts.

Another way to lower percieved volume on an older Fender amp is to turn all the tone knobs to zero, or barely above zero.

Finally, if you are trying to run keyboards as well as guitar, you may not be happy with less power, since keys (usually) need some goodly amount of tube power to avoid distorting (unless you are going for the distortion thing).

[chuckfurok]

Maybe also consider getting a Dual Showman (same as a twin in head form) or Bassman head and a 2 x 12 cab. Splits up the weight but still plenty loud. I found that deluxes are cool but break up too early for me.

[jabe]

I wouldn't worry about the lack of a mid knob on the smaller Fender amps. It's basically the same EQ circuit as the Twin (I assume we're talking black/silverface models) with the mid fixed at around 7, which is only 2db less that if it were cranked up to 10. You could easily approximate the EQ curve you're using now by turning the the bass and treble down a notch.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

I second the Dual Showman. They're relatively cheap for vintage fender heads and sound awesome. They're essentially the same circuit as the twin reverb, but something about not having the reverb circuit causes it to break up a bit earlier on the dial. At least that's what I've been told. All I know is that it sounds great and I've never bothered to buy a twin because of owning it.

Still loud as hell too.

[themagicmanmdt]

i hate any of the recent reissues, but if you like the amp but it's just too loud -

get one of those power sink speaker attenuators.

https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/mdump.htm

also the THD hot plate and the Dr Z one.

[Jim Williams]

Remove the 6.8k resistor off the bass control and change it to 10k ohms. That will push the mids back up to 10.

Or drill a hole in the back and mount a 10k audio pot and wire it up like in a Twin.

I have a '66 Deluxe, it wasn't loud enough so I installed 100 watt transformers and rebuilt the power stage with a pair of 6550 power tubes.
Now it's plenty loud, although I did install a master volume, tube effects loop , presense control and other preamp changes like the normal input is a JCM50 preamp stage.

I also have a pair of Showman heads, those are like Buck Owens on "11" stock. Very clean, but mine are modified with various preamp designs for variety. They are pretty whimpy next to the Basson Sound BGA-1 120 watter.

[calaverasgrandes]

or you could mod it so that one speaker can be disconnected. maybe a dpdt switch?
One less speaker should be a good drop in level while preserving your tone.
Not sure how well the trannt will do with different loads though. Most tube amps are happy with 8 and 16 ohm loads.

[Nick Sevilla]

i have a twin reverb (reissue) and to quote back to the future, "i'm sorry guys, but you're just too darn loud." i love the sound but i can only turn it up to about two and it's starting to hurt my back.

anyone have experience with the twin and deluxe?

i play with the bright switch off, treble on 7, mid on 10, and bass on 4 typically.

i'm a bit wary of the lack of a mid knob... has it ever been an issue with any deluxe folks out there?

any recommendations would be helpful. thanks.

-mike

ps. i can't go too small as i have to compete with another guitarist with a MIG100, and organist with a JC-120, a full stack bass and a ripping drummer.

pss. i need the two channels because i run my synth/vocoder through channel 1.

"i love the sound but i can only turn it up to about two and it's starting to hurt my back. "

You have to listen to it with your ears, not your back. That might be the issue.

Now, for a serious answer, you can put caster wheels on the amp. Have a reputable repairman do it, you'll be very happy. Make two of them lockable, so it can't drift away when not in a plane surface.

As to not being able to turn it up, but still having to "compete" with your fellow musicians... well, I'm all for the louder is great in a live situation. Unless you're a lounge singer...

I say take out the OUTSIDE two power tubes (the BIG ones) this will cut your power in half, and not affect your tone, since these are AFTER the preamp section.

Of course, it will not sound the same in a venue, since it will be less loud.

"This amp goes to Eleven, see..."

Cheers