Pres: is variety really a good thing?

Jitters · Post by **Jitters** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:06 pm

Wow! Fantastic feedback? lots of great points to consider. Thanks everyone.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:53 am

kingtoad wrote:
RodC wrote: The way I see it, if you only need one flavor of pre, you only need one flavor of mic.... So go out and buy 16 SM57s and be done with it
I realise that was intended to be somewhat tongue in cheek, but I felt the need to respond anyway. The pre makes nowhere near the amount of difference the mic does.

Yep it was tonge in cheek... but a pre can be pretty influntual on the sound...

What if pre A cant handle the SPL (No matter how much you lower the gain) of the drum/loud guitar you are recording for instance, but Pre B can. Thats a pretty large difference if you want very little distortion from your pre.

Often times ppl describe the "Natural compression" from a pre... sounds great, but often this is because you ran out of head room, imagine if you could preserve those transients and work with them. Now imagine if the only pre you have cant preserve those, sorta limits your choices...

Have you heard what the natural compression of a good pentode tube pre can sound like vs a non descrete ss pre? How about Tranny coupled FET vs Tranny coupled Transistor? I could go on for days...

IMO There are some pretty large differences out there.

Maybe you should try more than just the egg rolls the next time you go to the china buffet

(JK more tounge in cheek stuff)

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:04 pm

losthighway wrote:Yeah but you got a sweet console. I could fill two six space lunch boxes with API's or Great Rivers and have money left over for a couple Distressors for the price of a smaller Neotek. Not that those pieces of gear compete in their practical uses (not that I need to tell you that mr. nice desk)- I guess what I'm saying is for the average Joe who works a small studio as a part time job filling a lunch box is infinitely more attainable than getting a great big desk. It can't do all the things your desk does, but it sure is a way to get started sounding good.

I think part of this, is I still haven't gotten a clear vision of how much better a nice outboard eq (or console eq) is compared to a plugin. I'm sure I will someday, but for now my ignorance is pleasant.

There's nothing wrong with a 500 series rack full of just API (or what ever your favorite 500 series ) preamps, because you have 10 spaces doesn't mean you have to have 10 different pres. It's almost like a DAW...just cause you can do a lot of extra editing, clipping, strip silencing, autotuning etc doesn't mean you HAVE to...

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:52 pm

Jitters wrote:Hey guys and gals. I?m pretty new around here so forgive me if we?ve done this one already?

It seems like these days everyone is into having a bunch of different pres for different flavors. On the other hand, back in the day, stuff usually got recorded through the same pres (i.e. a desk) and those records don?t really seem to hurt for it.

I am going to start building some SCA pres and though I?m mostly thinking a straight eight in the Neve style will do me good, the option of having a few of these and of few of those isn?t exactly unappealing either.

Mic pres are like microphones. Colors that get applied to the sound source. Some make it uglier, some prettier.

I like to use the same mic pres when mic-ing one instrument, like a drumkit, or stereo sources, so you get consistency.

Otherwise, for any mono stuff, I try to hear what the source is, and what it wants to sound like in the final mix...

Cheers

kdarr · Post by **kdarr** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:49 pm

I guess it depends on what kind of preamps you have now, and whether or not you've used the N72s before.

Unless you need all 8 pres right away, I would say just build four of the N72's right off the bat, and get some use out of them first - knock out a couple recordings, and really get to know the sound of them with the mics you have on a few different sources.

You may find that certain sources or mics don't kill it with those pre's the way you want them to - you might want a different transient response or distortion character for certain things. On the other hand, you might just love them on everything, at which point you can just spring for the other four N72s.

[<|>]

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:51 pm

Out of necessity, I'm pretty much using only 1 type of preamp (RNP, unless you count Mackie preamps as backup), but for what I'm doing, that's just fine with me.

Since it's a pretty basic and straight up flavor, I can just worry about the mic, placement and source, and just making sure I have the right level going in. When you have to work quickly (e.g. sound design), it's a definite plus.

I think I was partially influenced by Nathan at Atlas Pro Audio, when he said in his review that getting 4 of the preamp units for 8 channels is a pretty good solution for a sub $2000 8 track input. I only have 4 channels, but it's served me fine so far.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:53 pm

Lemme give y'all this bedio-recordist's perspective.

I have a few cheap pre's that I seldom use (ART, Mackie, etc.), but 2 that I use all the time.

The first is a Meek VC3q which I use consistently for lead vocals, mostly because I like the opto-compressor and EQ. And I use it with my AT4040, with my NOS ribbon, or even an SM58, looking for the sounds of those mic's through it, and building my mix to it.

The other is a Studio Projects VTB1 which gets most of the guitars, typically with an SM58 or clone, or a ribbon, and gets all of the DI stuff, including amp emulators, and also tends to get the software compressors, if not my dbx163X (usually that on vox or bass).

I tend to use these amps thinking of them as 1. my vocal chain, and 2. my instrument chain, because:
a. I am used to using them that way;
b. they are proven to work for me;
c. they have become "my sound"; and,
d. they are set up to do so (connection-wise), conveniently.

Which is not to say I use them all the time so, but mebbe 90% ...

So, re the original thread topic of "variety", I find that having the two basic but different starting points (and each of these units is variable, ex., compressor and EQ on or off on the Meek; starved-tube, high-pass and gain adjustments on the VTB1) gives me what I consider some depth, and some convenience in my recordings.

Finally, alla that said, if I could afford an SSL ...

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:43 pm

vvv, great post. unrelated to the thread but related to what you said, I've got a VTB-1 that I too often use for bass DI and my vocal chain. Low-budget folks online talk about the Art Tube MP, Presonus Bluetube, and things in that range all the time, but it's relatively rare that I hear about the VTB-1. I've had mine for about half a year and it's made a huge difference in my recording. It was my first outboard preamp and it sucked to only be able to use it on one mic when recording drums, i could use 4 of them. I'd actually be pretty happy with that, so maybe it IS related to the original post. I just got an Art MPA Gold from someone on this board, so I wonder how it'll affect my decision of which preamp I use. The MPA gold has a sweepable high pass and two channels, so I'm guessing, if it sounds appropriate, I'll be using it for a lot of stereo sources.

rty5150 · Post by **rty5150** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:59 am

noeqplease wrote:
Jitters wrote:Hey guys and gals. I?m pretty new around here so forgive me if we?ve done this one already?

It seems like these days everyone is into having a bunch of different pres for different flavors. On the other hand, back in the day, stuff usually got recorded through the same pres (i.e. a desk) and those records don?t really seem to hurt for it.

I am going to start building some SCA pres and though I?m mostly thinking a straight eight in the Neve style will do me good, the option of having a few of these and of few of those isn?t exactly unappealing either.
Mic pres are like microphones. Colors that get applied to the sound source. Some make it uglier, some prettier.

I like to use the same mic pres when mic-ing one instrument, like a drumkit, or stereo sources, so you get consistency.

Otherwise, for any mono stuff, I try to hear what the source is, and what it wants to sound like in the final mix...

Cheers

i have quite a few outboard pres and a few console pres, each one reinvigorates my mic locker. the tonal options of your microphones is multiplied every time you pickup another type of preamp. some work better, some worse per a particular source, but a different color nonetheless.

rich

kingtoad · Post by **kingtoad** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:25 am

RodC wrote:
kingtoad wrote:
RodC wrote: The way I see it, if you only need one flavor of pre, you only need one flavor of mic.... So go out and buy 16 SM57s and be done with it
I realise that was intended to be somewhat tongue in cheek, but I felt the need to respond anyway. The pre makes nowhere near the amount of difference the mic does.
Yep it was tonge in cheek... but a pre can be pretty influntual on the sound...

What if pre A cant handle the SPL (No matter how much you lower the gain) of the drum/loud guitar you are recording for instance, but Pre B can. Thats a pretty large difference if you want very little distortion from your pre.

Often times ppl describe the "Natural compression" from a pre... sounds great, but often this is because you ran out of head room, imagine if you could preserve those transients and work with them. Now imagine if the only pre you have cant preserve those, sorta limits your choices...

Have you heard what the natural compression of a good pentode tube pre can sound like vs a non descrete ss pre? How about Tranny coupled FET vs Tranny coupled Transistor? I could go on for days...

IMO There are some pretty large differences out there.

Maybe you should try more than just the egg rolls the next time you go to the china buffet (JK more tounge in cheek stuff)

Don't get me wrong - if I've got a few different pres available and I'm not quite getting the sound I'm looking for I'll try changing the pre. Having a variety of pres is just pretty low on my list of priorities.

firby · Post by **firby** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:20 am

I am recording myself. I have a big trident 24 and an API 3124+. I also have a whole closet full of ART DBX Behringer, blah blah blah preamps. The API gets it done here. If I am not using it for preamps it is used for the DI. I overdrive it sometimes and cane that sound as well. A tiny bit of my recordings are Trident pres but it's really all API here.

For an artist type like me this setup works because I don't like to put on the engineer hat while I am doing my thing.

From the engineering standpoint, if there was a four channel neve sound that had great sounding DIs then that might have been just as nice of a piece.

What I have is two preamps that I know very very well on every source. It works good.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:40 am

We should make a distinction between personal priorities and reality, then. The notion that different mic preamps don't make nearly as much of a difference as different microphones, is a myth started by someone who either hadn't used many different preamps or didn't have the ears to know what they were hearing.

Switching to a different preamp can make a HUGE difference in the sound you get. And, as has been pointed out, it can also make your mics perform differently than they did with other types of preamps.

I'm also not buying this shit about songs being easier to mix if all of the tracks are recorded with the same pre. MAYBE if it's being mixed on the same console that you used for the preamps, that might be the case. But, still, I doubt it.

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:16 am

Most of the time, you don't make a wonderful meal with only one flavor.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:38 am

ipressrecord wrote:Most of the time, you don't make a wonderful meal with only one flavor.

Most of the time each track of the multitrack isn't the same instrument.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:47 am

drumsound wrote:
ipressrecord wrote:Most of the time, you don't make a wonderful meal with only one flavor.
Most of the time each track of the multitrack isn't the same instrument.

If the instruments are the veggies in a salaid, say maybe 20 different ones... and the pres are the dressing..... And you only have ONE ingredient in the dressing.... everthing will have a similar flavor

We could do this crap all day, to each his own... but i chose a dressing with lots o spices and flavors, or Im not going to put it on

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