Pres: is variety really a good thing?

Jitters · Post by **Jitters** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:39 am

Hey guys and gals. I?m pretty new around here so forgive me if we?ve done this one already?

It seems like these days everyone is into having a bunch of different pres for different flavors. On the other hand, back in the day, stuff usually got recorded through the same pres (i.e. a desk) and those records don?t really seem to hurt for it.

I am going to start building some SCA pres and though I?m mostly thinking a straight eight in the Neve style will do me good, the option of having a few of these and of few of those isn?t exactly unappealing either.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:07 am

No, it isn't necessary.
It's just an option. It's nice to be able to have good sounding pre's with extremely big headroom in at least two flavors, transformer input and transformerless input and it's great to have discrete opamps in them to accomplish this because they sound better in the mids which is where most end users of what you record will hear best in.
There are plenty of people that use a mackie to make records.
It's all in what you and your clients can bear to listen to over long periods and if it can possibly deliver an acceptable mix with proper talent and engineer.

RodC · Post by **RodC** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:43 am

I mic 99.99% of everything.

I cant afford a rack of comp, gate, reverbs, etc... So I do most of this ITB. I do often comp bass and some acoustic going in using hardware, but I cant afford a different gate/comp for everything. (Plus all the other nice things like recall of mixes ect that comes with ITB.)

The way I see it captureing the sound as close as possible to the way I want it is very important. The first 2 pieces of hardware that affects this the most is the Mic and the Pre. (Lets not even discuss room sound, mic position and all those important things...)

The way I see it, if you only need one flavor of pre, you only need one flavor of mic.... So go out and buy 16 SM57s and be done with it

Listen to a few different flavors before you make up your mind.

(I think I have, at last count, 65 different flavors of pres.)

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:45 am

Good post, RodC.

RodC wrote: (I think I have, at last count, 65 different flavors of pres.)

Any chance you've got a list! I'm only half kidding! My day job's doing graphic design and I always thought it'd be cool to have a series of posters showing all the ways people describe sounds of guitars, drums, etc, possibly trying to show them in an order as to show a full range. I tried this with guitar sounds here but people didn't seem too interested. "Flavors of Mic Preamps" just seems like it's begging for some sort of visual treatment.

As for the original question, I think it'd be really interesting to try tracking with all one kind of pre, though I wouldn't want that to be my only option. There was an interview in one of the more recent Tape Ops, I don't remember who it was, it might have been a few folks, but they talked about making progress in creativity with tracking by choosing limits. They gave a couple examples like only using gear you have that's red, or only mixing using every other fader. Basically pretty arbitrary, but possibly interesting limits. I think tracking with all one type of pre would be a great limit that would make you place even more importance on mic choice and placement. If you know your pres have a stronger than normal high end, you might use darker mics, you might put drum overheads lower to get less of the cymbals, etc. I personally don't have multiples of any one preamp so my stuff is kind of patchworky, but I'd love to do a whole project with just one kind of preamp. Just not all the time.

mjau · Post by **mjau** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:09 am

I'd rather have a small number of very good options than a large number of less than good options, FWIW.

kinger · Post by **kinger** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:27 am

Personally, I'd focus on getting a variety of mics over a variety of pres.

decocco · Post by **decocco** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:51 am

Just give me a console full of one kind of awesome pre. I will not complain. In fact, I will be very happy.

Different flavors are good too, but not necessary.

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:10 am

Yeah, I can imagine making amazing records on a Neotek console, or on a Neve, or an Api for that matter. The three would certainly sound different but they would all be a different tint of awesome.

The thing with pro grade pre's is they can be bought in one, two, quad channels, lunchbox etc. in periodic investments anywhere between $500, and $2,000. To get a console full of preamps that sound as good as any of these options (Sytek, API, Great River, Chandler, Sage, Purple, Daking, Focusrite, Avalon etc) you would have to spend many thousands all at once.

People with moderately successful project studios (such as myself) can slowly acquire a professional array of flavors.

Getting to know the colors of these little metal boxes can inform decisions and greater customize a sonic palette, making it more refined and making the records that come out of your studio sound distinct.

So in so many words, no it is not necessary. But yes it is awesome.

inasilentway · Post by **inasilentway** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:23 am

I don't think anyone here would complain about recording with 8 of those N72s. Or if you want some different flavors maybe 4 of those and 4 of something else. Or build 8 N72s all at once, and then buy a second SCA rack and add the other flavors as you can afford them. No matter what you pick you're going to end up pretty happy with some solid pres.

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:19 am

I think that having a bunch of preamps is good thing, as long as you know what sources/mics work well with them. Neve or API preamps or clones are definitely wonderful tools to have. However, I would look at the way that you record first and foremost. If you are only recording yourself, then you don't need 24 channels of preamps. If you are tracking bands live, then sure. Try to avoid preamp bloat, as there is always room for improvement with clocking, acoustics, monitors, etc.

For me, after years of having basic stuff (Mackie, cheap stand alone preamps, etc), I decided to sacrifice channel count for sound quality. It made sense for me. I track mostly friends' bands, and I know what they need for basics. So having 12 channels of preamps works for me right now. I am lucky to have 5 pairs of different flavors (Sytek stock, Sytek BB, Presonus MP20 w/ BB, BLA preamps in my 828mk2 - huge difference over stock -, dbx 386 clocked off of the BLA 828mk2), but I also have a channel of PM1000 and an EH 12AY7 for extra flavors. Obviously the next step will be stepping up to a few channels of API or Neve clones.

I also think that the OP is on the right track with the SCA stuff. Having 8 channels of Neve, 8 channels of API, or 4 + 4 would cover a lot of bases. If you are working ITB, which a lot of us here are, I would suggest getting the most out of your interface/clock as well. It's something to consider. If you are using Pro Tools LE or an older MOTU interface you should check out Black Lion Audio. Preamps alone are not enough sometimes.

Jeff

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:13 pm

I'm not a fan of the 4 gillion preamp craze. i like mostly using console preamps, especialy for multi micing of the same instrument, like a whole drums set, various guitar mics to on or stereo tracks. I have only 6 channels of outboard pres. 2 are in the Drawmer '96 compressor and I can't think of the last time I used those. An origional white Great River MP2MH gets used a lot for acoustic guitar and vocals with my super dark CMV 563, but a lot of that has to do with cutting vocals in the CR, and it's the easiest to get at in the rack. When I buy an XLR to TT cable or two that may stop. The Aurora is really nice, but I don't really favor the pre, but I like the EQ a lot. I may sell it to buy a pimped out EQ.

I find that when most or all of the record is done on the same pre the mix makes more sense to me and it sounds and feels more cohesive.

To the OP-YES make 8 of the same pre!!!

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:08 pm

Yeah but you got a sweet console. I could fill two six space lunch boxes with API's or Great Rivers and have money left over for a couple Distressors for the price of a smaller Neotek. Not that those pieces of gear compete in their practical uses (not that I need to tell you that mr. nice desk)- I guess what I'm saying is for the average Joe who works a small studio as a part time job filling a lunch box is infinitely more attainable than getting a great big desk. It can't do all the things your desk does, but it sure is a way to get started sounding good.

I think part of this, is I still haven't gotten a clear vision of how much better a nice outboard eq (or console eq) is compared to a plugin. I'm sure I will someday, but for now my ignorance is pleasant.

kingtoad · Post by **kingtoad** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:03 pm

RodC wrote: The way I see it, if you only need one flavor of pre, you only need one flavor of mic.... So go out and buy 16 SM57s and be done with it

I realise that was intended to be somewhat tongue in cheek, but I felt the need to respond anyway. The pre makes nowhere near the amount of difference the mic does. A relatively close analogy would, IMO, be to think of the mic as the guitar and the pre as the pick, or maybe the strings. Yes, they effect the sound, but not on the same level the instrument does.

Anyway, I don't really know why I bothered with that analogy, but there it is. I like to use good preamps but having a variety of pres would be pretty far down my list when either choosing a studio to work in or thinking of purchases to augment my own setup.

Ronan Chris Murphy · Post by **Ronan Chris Murphy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:00 pm

Its fun having various mic pres, but I have no problem doing entire albums with only one kind of mic pre, which I often do. The last bunch of records I have done recently where probably done 90-100% with one flavor of mic pre (Pacifica of Neve 1073)

joninc · Post by **joninc** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:28 pm

i'd say - build 4 of the same one to start and then see what you think. of course you CAN make great records with 1 good type of preamp BUT you don't have to.

for example - i have a vintech 1272 (another neve 1272 clone). it's thick and is great on a lot of sources but it's definitely not the first thing i reach for for acoustic guitar - or piano - or drum overheads. i think you might find you prefer having a few options given the choice...

just saying - don't be hasty. take your time and think about it - experiment....

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Pres: is variety really a good thing?

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