snare bottom mic

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grumpysoundguy
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snare bottom mic

Post by grumpysoundguy » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:11 am

would you kindly offer yr tips for getting a good snare bottom sound. i'm currently using a 57. the top has sennheiser e905. tried a couple different:

sm57
beta 57
e604
e609

stardard mics that are available....no access to anything really nice but figured i could get the right combo. ....


currently getting too much of the snares. snare sounds weak with just top mic, any mic. sounds better with both, but not quite there.....


thanks for your time

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Post by chris harris » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:18 am

If you're getting too much of the snares, then it sounds like the bottom mic is doing what it's supposed to. Sounds like your complaint is with what you're getting from the top mic. I've always been pretty pleased with the sm57 on top and nearly any other mic on bottom to pick up the snares.

You might also consider micing the shell to get more body from the snare sound.

Also, make sure that you're flipping the polarity of the bottom mic, so that you're not canceling the frequencies that give you the punch that you're after.

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Ryan Silva
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Post by Ryan Silva » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:23 am

Well for me I mic the bottom of the snare for the sole purpose of hearing the snares. So if you are already getting too much, you may want to play a little more with your top mic positioning.

Any of those mics will do, however a condenser tends to be a common choice for bottom snare because of the nice sizzle it can give the snares. In more agressive styles of playing, a dynamic may be best.
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Post by thunderboy » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:37 am

subatomic pieces wrote: Also, make sure that you're flipping the polarity of the bottom mic, so that you're not canceling the frequencies that give you the punch that you're after.
Unless, of course, it isn't necessary. Depending on mic positioning, reversing polarity on the bottom can also cause MORE cancellation. Listen first.



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Post by johnnydove » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:13 pm

thunderboy wrote:
subatomic pieces wrote: Also, make sure that you're flipping the polarity of the bottom mic, so that you're not canceling the frequencies that give you the punch that you're after.
Unless, of course, it isn't necessary. Depending on mic positioning, reversing polarity on the bottom can also cause MORE cancellation. Listen first.



jt
+1 that happened to me with the last band i recorded, i ended up not needing to flip it. definitely listen first.
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:21 pm

I try not to use a bottom mic.

But when I do, I usually go for a sdc that has roll-off and a pad, like the Shure SM81.

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Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:58 pm

what if you put the 57 on top and the e905 on bottom?
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A.David.MacKinnon
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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:00 pm

I'm going to go the other way and suggest a more full range mic for the under snare. I like a 421 down there but anything that can get the sizzle as well as some extra low end body will help the overall snare sound.

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Post by Brett Siler » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:12 pm

junkshop wrote:I'm going to go the other way and suggest a more full range mic for the under snare. I like a 421 down there but anything that can get the sizzle as well as some extra low end body will help the overall snare sound.
Same here I prefer a conseror on top to get plenty of crack, and a beefy sounding bottom, mostly a dynamic. I like the Audix i5, and I know some people like the Sennheiser 421. I've also used a 57 on top and bottom and that has sounded cool too though...

Flipping polarity is pretty important to check. It can make a night and day difference. Some times it will be just the top, or just bottom. Sometimes both have to be flipped, or maybe even not flipped at all! Just listen to the snare mics and the overheads and see what sounds the fullest.

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Post by cgarges » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:38 pm

AWESOME thread about it here:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=61765

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Post by rocky » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:15 am

I managed to get a free Electro-Voice Cardinal microphone after playing a show sponsored by them a few years ago (the joys of SXSW!)

It sounds great on snare bottom, before I was mostly using 57s, 421s, 441s.

I find myself having to do less to the EV and generally having the snare bottom feature more in the mix than ever before.

It's also sounded good on ultra-compressed vocals for a rock band I've been working with.

I probably never would have bought one either, but I'm glad I've got it.

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Post by mscottweber » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:51 am

currently getting too much of the snares.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned merely turning down the bottom snare channel. I usually keep the volume low on my bottom snare tracks, just loud enough to add some crack to the sound I get from the top mic.

And all that stuff mentioned above about checking polarities between mics is really vital, too.



edited to fix quotations

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firesine
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Post by firesine » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:46 pm

441 is good becuase it's super cardioid so you don't get as much kick coming in the side of the mic. 441 is pretty much all I use unless one isn't around, then I just use a 57. I match the gain on the pres for top and bottom snare but usually pull the the bottom snare fader down about 10dB. That just sounds good. Also, I buss the two together befor tape so I would rather have less bottom snare than too much.
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Post by decocco » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:29 pm

I loves me a 441 on bottom snare.

You could try 2 mics on the top of the snare drum. A 57 with some kind of SDC, like a 451, taped (or zip tied) to it will help add some beef to the snare sound. You've got to get the diaphragms of both mics lined up so that they sound rad and not phasey/nasty.

currently getting too much of the snares.
In that case, don't use a bottom snare mic. They mostly capture the sound of the snare wires, not the overall snare drum sound.
snare sounds weak with just top mic, any mic.
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Gebo
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Post by Gebo » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:56 pm

I usually use an at4040 about an inch from the rim, with the diaphram looking half at the skin and half at the shell. Than I use an EV RE-10 on the bottom about 4 inches below the snare pointed at the middle (Gated to get rid of kick bleed). A majority of the snare sound comes from the top mic. Than during mixing I sneak in the underside mic until it sounds like it would if you were standing in the room. I also find that if the snare wires are too loose they can really sound like shit and start to dominate the snare sound.

Have you had this issue with multiple snare drums?
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