snare bottom mic

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:32 pm

I never use a bottom snare mic, but I almost always use a mic under the snare.

Omni condenser 'bout 8" from the bottom of the snare and 8" from the bass beater.

Brings presence to the bass drum and some air to the snare all without EQ.

It just adds a little life to the drums if it's done right.

grumpysoundguy
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Post by grumpysoundguy » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:40 am

shakestheclown wrote:I never use a bottom snare mic, but I almost always use a mic under the snare.
fully aware that i'm wasting as much time as i felt you and i wasted on grammar.....but is that really necessary? everyone knows that the title, "snare bottom mic" means snare-bottom mic. ...but i'll make sure to do that next time since a hyphen takes up so much less time/space than this crap.

anyway,
thanks to everyone for their time and useful advice. cgarges, i was actually hoping someone would post that link. i saw it a while ago but didn't bookmark it!

i'll probably post some stuff up after next week.
the project is a summer camp for kids 11-16. the theme is Woodstock. some of the instructors are giving workshops on learning to play some songs from the original festival. i'm gonna be doing some final touches and tracking/mixing.
most of these kids are recording for the first time. some of them have just started playing. most of the equipment except the guitars are provided by the school. it's real entry level stuff.

-Pearl Export kit w/cracked paiste bronze cymbals
-crate (something)120 2x12" gtr amps
-ampeg 15"(b15 or something, it's a low power combo w/tweeter
-casio keyboards
-you get the idea

some of the teachers are really bright and some of the students are really brave. it's been fun and i think we're getting the most out of the time(2 weeks, M-F 10am-3pm), space, players, equipment available.

i'm tracking to a yamaha digital 8 track. there's a powered carvin mixer that i'm using for preamps, talkback, control room monitors and headphone mixes.

anyone know of a better way to post tracks than myspace?

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thunderboy
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Post by thunderboy » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:02 am

grumpysoundguy wrote:
shakestheclown wrote:I never use a bottom snare mic, but I almost always use a mic under the snare.
fully aware that i'm wasting as much time as i felt you and i wasted on grammar.....but is that really necessary? everyone knows that the title, "snare bottom mic" means snare-bottom mic. ...but i'll make sure to do that next time since a hyphen takes up so much less time/space than this crap.
Someone hasn't had their coffee!

Had you finished reading Shakes' post, you might have realized he meant "I do NOT use a mic dedicated solely to capturing the bottom of the snare drum, but I DO use a mic placed underneath the snare drum that captures part of the kit - as a whole - which I find useful in the mix."

jt
"most toreadors worth a damn are circumcized."
- Discs of Tron

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jgimbel
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Post by jgimbel » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:08 am

grumpysoundguy wrote:
shakestheclown wrote:I never use a bottom snare mic, but I almost always use a mic under the snare.
fully aware that i'm wasting as much time as i felt you and i wasted on grammar.....but is that really necessary? everyone knows that the title, "snare bottom mic" means snare-bottom mic. ...but i'll make sure to do that next time since a hyphen takes up so much less time/space than this crap.
grumpy, I really didn't get the impression from shakestheclown's post that he was saying anything condescending about the way you worded things. I think there definitely is a difference between putting a mic under the snare with the main goal of getting the snare wires, and putting a mic in omni under the snare that's intended to balance getting the snare wires and also add some needed sound to the kick drum. At the first read of his first line I thought the same thing as you, but once I read the next line I understood that he wasn't coming at you, he was making an interesting point that there are multiple purposes to putting a mic under a snare drum. That's what I took from it anyway. Cheer up grumpy!

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jgimbel
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Post by jgimbel » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:09 am

Haha good teamwork thunderboy! Your post wasn't there when I started writing mine!

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thunderboy
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Post by thunderboy » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:39 pm

*high five*

jt
"most toreadors worth a damn are circumcized."
- Discs of Tron

grumpysoundguy
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Post by grumpysoundguy » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:04 pm

yeah, you guys are totally right. and shakestheclown i owe you a serious apology.

I'M SORRY!

-actually had too much coffee

-read the whole post and took it as "hey look i'm just as clever at english as i am at audio"

-was simultaneously reading a sports forum that included an obnoxious lakers fan and an obnoxious anti-lakers fan....

-all while taking a break from bickering 11 year olds

at that moment i believed the world was full of mean people. i was quick on the draw and shot an innocent man!

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losthighway
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Post by losthighway » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:29 pm

Some good options:

Dynamic and SDC over the top.

Dynamic over the top and SDC on the side as opposed to the bottom.

Yeah, as mentioned- phase flipping.

I like the beefy sound that m201's get. A lot of times when I do put up a bottom mic it ends up being mixed quite a bit lower than the top. I also find that it can take some more radical eqing, especially cutting a lot of unwanted sound.

I have recently noticed that my snare sound is entirely dependent on both the overheads and the close mic. My snare sounds would be a little weird without overheads. The solo close mic is often surprisingly dark with a hefty fundamental somewhere in between 200 and 500hz depending on the drum.

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:08 am

No worries man...

I would like to add that with the under-the-snare mic SDC (that I actually label "snare bottom"...heh.) I usually incorporate a clipboard on top of the rug underneath the mic so as to add a little bit of crispness.

Also even though it's omni, I usually aim it at the beater of the bass drum.

I also don't mic hi-hats, use SM57's, pop filters or 10 different preamps and usually track full bands live off the floor without headphones. (this usually means loud floor wedges)

So take my advice with a grain of salt because it feels like I don't do anything that anyone else is doing it may not be your flavor.

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akg414
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Post by akg414 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:27 pm

I would stick with the SM57 on the bottom. When I use both top and bottom mics, I use a Sennheiser 441 on the top and SM57 on the bottom.

But lately I've been using a more simple technique.

I like to use "Glyn Johns" style overheads using AKG 414's. And then I'll throw my Sennheiser 441 mic on the bottom of the snare.

The overheads do such a great job at picking up the snare's top - and the bottom mic puts back in just the right amount of the snare's sound.
- Brad

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jgimbel
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Post by jgimbel » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:32 pm

shakestheclown wrote:I would like to add that with the under-the-snare mic SDC (that I actually label "snare bottom"...heh.) I usually incorporate a clipboard on top of the rug underneath the mic so as to add a little bit of crispness.
Shakes, how much do you think this affects the sound? I'm in a basement with cement floors but I've got carpets covering most all of the floor so the drums don't move around. I read here and there about people putting big pieces of plywood or mdf in front of drums, or wood under snares like you're saying, and I'm always wondering if it makes a big enough difference that it's worth digging around for some scraps around here. My room doesn't have an awful dead sound, but has very little in the way of the kind of reflections I'd like in my drum recordings. How's it work for you?

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:56 am

You can hear the sound that the clipboard imparts by simply talking into an absorptive surface ( like your rug or carpet and then placing the clipboard in the same place.

Obviously your voice isn't the same as a snare but you will get the general idea.

Just sounds like "air" to me.

10k and up maybe? (just a guess)

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