How do you like to work between analog and digital?

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:17 pm

This is a really complicated question about work-flow. For ages I have been using my nice pre's (API, Sytek) as a front end for a nice converter (Lynx) with my nasty board (Mackie) serving as a monitor hub.

I was lucky enough to take a peak inside of Studio G (thanks again Joel) a couple weeks ago,and it served as a vision of how to integrate a variety of high quality outboard gear (comp, eq, limiters, etc) with a board, and pro tools working as a tape machine.

I am thinking of someday investing in a board that I can grow into (soundcraft, neotek, soundtracs, toft, not really sure yet), one that won't degrade mix down like my mackie would, providing a tool to allow me to mix-down out of the box integrating more outboard gear/board eq's.

My big question is how do you integrate your digital and analog worlds? What kind of set up and routing do you do when you're ready to print something back into the digital world? Do you get good sounds happening and then print stems back into your computer, to leave you more level options between drums, bass, guitar, and vocals? Do you get a good thing going and then print to two tracks? Do you like finding a good sound for whatever instrument and then printing the analog compression/eq, simply saving and muting the original track in your computer for insurance purposes?

Thanks.[/i]

Future One · Post by **Future One** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:49 pm

Everything gets recorded through my API A2D. Either mic'd or through the DI inputs. I also track synths through a Thermionic Culture Culture Vulture then into the A2D.

All of my compression, eq and effects are done in the box using mainly UAD and Sonnox plugs.

If there's something that still needs some spicing up like softsynths or drum loops I run the stems out to the Culture Vulture during the mixdown stage. Paying careful attention to volume levels to make sure what I'm doing actually sounds better.

johnnydove · Post by **johnnydove** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:24 pm

on the analog side i have a tascam m600 board, some outboard compressors and 'verbs, on the digital end i'm using sonar 7 and 3 firepods. i record and mix through the board, using the computer as a tape machine and to supplement any compressing/eq'ing that i can't do with outboard (until i have enough to buy more, that is.). when the mix is done, i use one of the 2 track outs on the patchbay to record back into sonar on a stereo track. if i have to do any parallel compression, i'll just solo the drum tracks in the computer and record those into sonar, compress there and send the output back to the board.

ctmsound · Post by **ctmsound** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:26 pm

I mix in the box, output via apogee in stems into an allen heath mix wiz and 2-track back in. I typically don't touch the mixer so I can easily recall mixes, just leave the faders at unity, but sometimes I'll grab an EQ or use its internal FX. Plan on getting a stereo buss compressor and EQ eventually.

LazarusLong · Post by **LazarusLong** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:15 am

ctmsound wrote:I mix in the box, output via apogee in stems into an allen heath mix wiz and 2-track back in. I typically don't touch the mixer so I can easily recall mixes, just leave the faders at unity, but sometimes I'll grab an EQ or use its internal FX. Plan on getting a stereo buss compressor and EQ eventually.

+1

and you could take it a step further with one of the Dangerous Music 2Bus boxes.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:58 am

I like to mix out of the box when I can and I will send each track in cubase to a track on my Ghost up to 24 tracks. If I have more than 24 tracks I will sum anything in cubase that makes sense and send those out as a stereo group to two tracks on my ghost. I use mainly UAD plug ins for compression and efx in the box, sent out to the ghost. Finally I will use the aux sends from the ghost to send to my small collection of outboard gear, which get routed to yet more channels on my ghost. I keep everything at zero in cubase and mix it all on the ghost. When I am finished, I will usually print stems of the Drums, Bass, Vox, Guitars and Efx. Unless I have royally screwed something up within those or someone wants a major change, I can usually remix from the stems without doing any recall at all.

I am sort of obsessed with the sounds Peter Katis has been getting, and after doing some reading, apparently he runs stuff out a lot through outboard gear and records it right back into pro-tools, so I have been trying that too. Especially since I got my reamp.

A.David.MacKinnon · Post by **A.David.MacKinnon** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:03 am

I'm using Pro Tools as a tape machine these days. I do a little sub mixing, compressing, routing and use some effects in the box and then send tracks to the mixer and outboard gear.
I'll frequently record stem mixes back into Pro Tools so I can automate volume changes and have some level of recall ability.

ctmsound · Post by **ctmsound** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:47 am

LazarusLong wrote:
+1

and you could take it a step further with one of the Dangerous Music 2Bus boxes.

I'm holding out for the Chandler Mini Mixer, sounds amazing. Wasn't very impressed with the dangerous summing. That or a Toft board.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:17 am

losthighway wrote: I was lucky enough to take a peak inside of Studio G (thanks again Joel) a couple weeks ago,and it served as a vision of how to integrate a variety of high quality outboard gear (comp, eq, limiters, etc) with a board, and pro tools working as a tape machine
[/i]

no sweat man.

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:05 pm

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I really like the hybrid approach. I've just been using outboard stuff coming in, and occasionally doing analog compression treatments for specific issues on specific tracks and printing single tracks back to computer-land. That and reamping lots of different things.

It seems the trick is when you integrate the two worlds there is only about a million different ways to do it. This is definitely something I look forward to doing as my gear collection starts to grow some more.

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:42 pm

Our most regularly used method

track to 2" 16 at 15
get a good take and fly into PT at 96k
Re-use 2"

OD's into PT
Edits in PT
Mix w PT to mostly individual outs to the console. A few things coming out of pairs of PT outs (say 5 background vocals or 4 string tracks each out a stereo pair)

Mostly analog outboard gear and a few favored plugins.

Mix to 1/2" at 30 re-using a reel or two

Playback from the same machine into a seperate 96k "Mix File" for the whole record.
96k Mix file goes to mastering

Nick Franklin · Post by **Nick Franklin** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:50 pm

Funny this should come up because I recently re-cabled my studio and I did a lot of thinking about how the signals were going to flow before I got stuck in.

I have two recording mediums, a PT 002, and a Tascam MS16.

Microphone signals come in from the live room, 4 into outboard pres, the remaining 12 into the pres on my desk (A&H ZED420). I use the insert sends on the desk as sends to tools or the tape machine, and the insert returns as tape/tools returns.

Choosing to record to tape or tools is as simple as patching the preamp outs into the machine or pro tools on the patchbay. I return stems from tools to the desk (maybe 4-6 channels for drums, 2 for guitars etc), or each tape track gets it's own channel of course.

I print the mix back into a pair of line ins on tools.

Outboard comps/EQ are inserted between either tape and the board or tools and the board.

I think working elegantly between analogue and digital is achieved through a thorough and well thought out patchbay/signal routing plan when setting up.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:20 am

roscoenyc wrote:Our most regularly used method

track to 2" 16 at 15
get a good take and fly into PT at 96k
Re-use 2"

OD's into PT
Edits in PT
Mix w PT to mostly individual outs to the console. A few things coming out of pairs of PT outs (say 5 background vocals or 4 string tracks each out a stereo pair)

Mostly analog outboard gear and a few favored plugins.

Mix to 1/2" at 30 re-using a reel or two

Playback from the same machine into a seperate 96k "Mix File" for the whole record.
96k Mix file goes to mastering

Exactly what Roscoe wrote here, except I usually dont bother with 96k.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:15 am

basically,
if you dont think about a DAW as anything BUT a tape machine.. a really, really smart one, but a tape machine nonetheless... then it becaomes completely self apparent as to how to implement it in an analog studio.
Any other permutation is a specific reaction to a workflow that has mutated since the tape, or even ADAT/DAT days.

The ADAT and the DAT just plugged right in where the 24track/ 2track plugged in. I never even thought about it when protools replaced the ADATS. the patch points still say "tape in" not to be cute but because that is the name of the snake, ya know?

losthighway · Post by **losthighway** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:41 am

I guess if you think of protools as exactly the same as an ADAT or 2" tape the process seems easier. You're always playing each channel through the board, you're always patching things out through various gear and returning to the board. When you're done instead of mixing down to 1/4" 2 track, you mix down to single stereo l/r digital.

Where it gets head-swimmingly complicated is your different options for recall, or last minute adjustments. If you don't have a cybertronic board that whips the faders and eq's back to where you used them a week ago a certain risk can be diminished by doing some kind of partial mix down. Getting stems to print through your outboard gear and then having levels to adjust between the important groups of instruments and vocals could be an insurance policy.

But then how do you best sub group things? Keep the guitar solo separate from the two rhythm guitar tracks so that its volume can be adjusted later. What about at the end of the session and dude got a little drunk and did a cool, wild sounding slide guitar track with tons of reverb that everyone has been loving hard panned and buried in the mix. Should that layer of spice be kept separate for further volume adjustment.

Either way, the stem idea seems best. Even if you printed six guitar tracks to one stereo track on the computer. If everything was dumbed down to drums, guitars, bass, keys, vocals. If only the guitars were done wrong re-printing that stem would be a hell of a lot easier than starting the whole mix over.

I guess it comes down to one of the most important methodological issues of this craft: Avoid having to make decisions now so you don't render something you won't like, and won't be able to change. OR Just freaking commit to something already, this is how we get better at it!

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How do you like to work between analog and digital?

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