Doubled Vocals

Matthew_Moore79 · Post by **Matthew_Moore79** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:21 am

Strong doubled vocals is a technique that many of my heros use, though I know that many times, simply recording a vocal twice and then playing them together doesn't sound quite right. What are some modifications that can be done to achieve a better sound?

Thanks

lapsteel · Post by **lapsteel** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:33 am

Do a better single vocal take.

Add some reverb to the single vocal take.

Copy the vocal track onto another track. On the new track add delay, maybe around 5ms.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:49 am

lapsteel wrote:Do a better single vocal take.

Add some reverb to the single vocal take.

Copy the vocal track onto another track. On the new track add delay, maybe around 5ms.

This simply never, ever sounds as good as a real doubled vocal.

If you want doubled vocals to sound better, keep practicing them until you can double it better. Too many people think that this (or the 'copy' method) is a good trick to masking a poor vocal performance. The truth is, the better the singer is, the better it will sound, whether it's a single take or stacked vocals.

So, the simple answer is to sing better. If you're looking for a tool to help "fix" doubled vocals so that they sound better, then do some research on "VocALign"

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:20 am

Doubled Vocals take a lot of precision to sound good.

If the two performances are not timed just right the phase becomes more of an effect, and less of a thickening.

So usually it's way more effort to get a good doubled take, than to just get a single take sounding good (IMHO).

I will encourage singers to double vocal choruses when it's a thick mix, and most of the time, it works.

lapsteel · Post by **lapsteel** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:24 am

subatomic pieces wrote:
lapsteel wrote:Do a better single vocal take.

Add some reverb to the single vocal take.

Copy the vocal track onto another track. On the new track add delay, maybe around 5ms.
This simply never, ever sounds as good as a real doubled vocal.

If you want doubled vocals to sound better, keep practicing them until you can double it better. Too many people think that this (or the 'copy' method) is a good trick to masking a poor vocal performance. The truth is, the better the singer is, the better it will sound, whether it's a single take or stacked vocals.

So, the simple answer is to sing better. If you're looking for a tool to help "fix" doubled vocals so that they sound better, then do some research on "VocALign"

Yeah, definitely. I should have added that.

It will probably be less time consuming to get it right then to work on tricks that you are never quite happy with.

jkretz · Post by **jkretz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:25 am

this is tricky stuff... for my own band there are two lead vocalists, myself and matt. matt nails his doubles, with ease - usually the first time. he likes to hear the original take as he sings the double.

i, however, am not so fortunate. pitch-wise, i'm usually there - but it's the timing that's killer. phrasing things slightly differently always seems to make for a sloppy double. i've found that, for me, it's easier to double if i don't hear the original track.

try messing with whether or not you hear the original, or perhaps record the melody as a guide track on some other instrument (guitar / piano / etc...) - then try singing to that, twice.

good luck - doubled vocals rule and are well worth the effort!

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:35 am

jkretz wrote:i, however, am not so fortunate. pitch-wise, i'm usually there - but it's the timing that's killer. phrasing things slightly differently always seems to make for a sloppy double. i've found that, for me, it's easier to double if i don't hear the original track.

This seems totally counter-intuitive. If you manage to get good doubles like this, then it's pure luck. I certainly wouldn't recommend it. You're much better off just practicing (people still do that, right?) until you've got the phrasing down so that you can nail it every time.

Maybe wait to do the double until you've had some time to listen to the first take and get used to the phrasing. Seems a better idea than taking a stab in the dark and hoping it works out.

decocco · Post by **decocco** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:25 pm

The only way to get a great double is to really know the vocal part. Consistency between the takes is what makes it work.

If you can't sing the vocal part consistently, you should practice it until you can. If you really learn it, you'll have no problem doubling.

firesine · Post by **firesine** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:50 pm

Usually, I don't have a singer consciously double themselves. When I get a good take I say "two more just like that." Then, pick the best one any pan the other two left and right.

If you aren't happy with the double, do a triple. It seems illogical, but the addition of a third take can smooth over a lot of the obvious mistakes in the double. For even more smoothing, try tuning one side down a few cents and the other up a few. Works great for pop songs.

Ps. I ALWAYS align the takes by hand and then VocAlign as well. It's important to get all the Ss and Ts happening at the same time. Make sure your doubles aren't starting before or ending after the LV. If they are, nudge them back or cut them short so you don't hear the doubles trailing off at the end of words.

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:08 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:
jkretz wrote:i, however, am not so fortunate. pitch-wise, i'm usually there - but it's the timing that's killer. phrasing things slightly differently always seems to make for a sloppy double. i've found that, for me, it's easier to double if i don't hear the original track.
This seems totally counter-intuitive. If you manage to get good doubles like this, then it's pure luck. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

I'm going to have to disagree. Yes, it does absolutely sound counter-intuitive, but try it and you might be surprised. I love recording doubles and 80% of the time I get a better double if I'm recording them without hearing the first recording. If I hear the first recording while doing the double, I'm reacting to it and focusing on it so much that I'm more timid. Practicing the part a lot beforehand enough to know how you're going to phrase it, what your dynamics are, and making sure you know how long note is held for, then recording two separate takes as doubles is definitely what's worked best for me. That's basically what firesine is saying here:

firesine wrote: Usually, I don't have a singer consciously double themselves. When I get a good take I say "two more just like that." Then, pick the best one any pan the other two left and right.

That's essentially the same thing, whether you're recording specifically two separate takes specifically as a double, or recording multiple takes and picking from them. Like I said yeah it does sound like that shouldn't work out, but it's definitely something I've noticed. Yes practicing so you sing it exactly the same each time regardless of whether you're hearing it or not is best, but I think this other way works well too.

jnTracks · Post by **jnTracks** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:20 pm

i have a couple of opinions here.
first, my technique for recording vocal doubles is to get a good single take. then say "great, do it again just like that" bounce them to the second track and do a take. repeat until it sounds really close and then bounce them back to record over the first. sometimes i tell the singer, sometimes i don't. in some cases i bounce back and fourth a few times since they usually get tighter as we go. by the end i've got the best takes and they don't need any aligning (or not much) since we've been drilling it for several takes.

another thing to consider is sometimes a vocalist might not sound especially good doubled. this happens with my voice in particular. i have a high-mid rasp in my loud chest voice that, when doubled, the harshness comes out a lot. my solution is ether to skip doubling all together or to notch out the harsh frequencies that are bothering me in the doubled track. so the double will only have the other frequencies in the voice. it'll sound really weird by itself but mixed with the un-filtered vocal track it will add thickness.

i wasn't sure exactly which problem was causing you to not like the sound of your doubled vocals. it seems most everybody responding here has answers for alignment but that might not be the only problem.

good luck!

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:25 pm

+1 on the above: make sure the original part is good, know the phrasing, and all that. I couldn't say it better. I'm lucky in that I seem to be pretty good at doubling my vocals, partly because I focus on my phrasing (not to say my phrasing is GOOD, I just know what it is).

Beyond that, some technical stuff to try if you're not happy:

??you don't need the double to be the same volume as the original, play with varying degrees of the balance.

? use a different mic or compression setting for your doubles and triples.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:26 pm

i've found that certain voices just don't sound good doubled. regardless of how good a singer they are. one of my best friends has an awesome voice, but he always sounded like a weird robot anytime we tried doubling.

then on the other hand, i had another guy in here recently who sang a couple takes of each tune (without hearing the previous take) and it was almost otherworldly how perfectly they fit together.

i tend to feel like doubling has a big effect on the intimacy of the vocals. i.e. if it's one vocal, i hear that person telling me a story. if there's two or more i hear a recording made in a studio. if that makes any sense. so typically i might go with one vocal for verses and save the doubles for the chorus, but it always varies...

anyhow...things to try...

have the singer move back from the mic for the double
and/or use an omni
or a darker mic in general
roll off some highs from the double
perhaps have someone else in the band sing the double

my old band had a couple songs where we "got all def leppard" and did like 32 tracks of vocals for a couple parts. i think i lost a day of my life sorting out all the s's and t's but man did it sound good.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:36 pm

re: s's and t's. I sang an end consonant once in 1988 while doing a backup vocal (it was the "k" at the end of the word "book"), and the other backup singer looked at me like I was some sort of moron. She had a few more sessions under her belt than I did. We re-did the take, with both of us singing "boo...." instead and it worked much better. As this was pre-DAW of course it would have been much more difficult for the engineer to remove all the sloppy consonants, so we just didn't sing them. This technique can be helpful for mults as well.

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:05 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:i think i lost a day of my life sorting out all the s's and t's but man did it sound good.

Amen brother!

Message Board

Doubled Vocals

Doubled Vocals

Re: Doubled Vocals

Who is online