Sonar 8 or Logic 9 - PC or Mac ?

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tdbajus
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Post by tdbajus » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:07 pm

flapmaggot wrote:better yet, two ghetto blasters - ping pong takes back and forth!

Sold!

Thanks Germ - the Maggot
I have very fond memories of my "infinite track" recording.

step one: Plug HR-16 drum machine and tele into Zoom 9002 rockman-esque headphone amp in same mixer into Realistic (Radio Shack) mixer

step two: play guitar live to drum machine while recording on Boombox A.

step three: Swap tape from Boombox A to Boombox B. Patch Boombox B into Realistic mixer instead of drum machine. Record live vocals and 2nd layer of guitar into Boombox A. Dig natural chorusing, since boomboxes have slightly different tape speeds.
raweber wrote:If you're going to go the Mac route, don't forget Digital Performer. My first CD was mixed on DP (before I knew anything about DAWs - I assumed it was Pro Tools!) and I was so impressed I couldn't believe it.

Worth checking out.

For the record, at home I use a PC with Sonar 7, but's that's because I already had a PC and serious budget issues.
How is Sonar? I never hear much about it, other than Andy Hung is using it, right?
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raweber
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Post by raweber » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:10 am

tdbajus wrote:
flapmaggot wrote:How is Sonar? I never hear much about it, other than Andy Hung is using it, right?
For some reason Sonar seems to fly under the radar on most forums. Craig Anderton is a fan, and it's the most used by the Garritan folk over on Northernsounds.

As for my experience, mixed. It seems like every MIDI project has some sort of a bug - when I slip edit a MIDI track, the first time I hit play none of the MIDI tracks play (although the audio tracks do) and I have to hit stop and play again - but only on that song. Right now I'm doing some recording with my WX5 wind controller and every now and then the first note I record will trigger all the MIDI tracks (but not record notes on them).

At the same time, I'm not using a dedicated music computer (wish I was). I just booted off the kids to their own Internet machine and as soon as I can get my stupid new SATA drive working I'm going to wipe the OS drive clean and start over. You can follow progress on that on my blog.

So, I like the features and MIDI editing on Sonar, and the community at the Cakewalk Forum is really helpful. I have had some stability issues, but so far nothing is an absolute deal-breaker. I'll know better when I'm running a dedicated machine. And, the Sonalksis plug-ins that come with it are terrific! If cost was no issue, though, I'd be running DP on a Mac. That program blew me away.
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firby
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Post by firby » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:38 am

I use Logic 8 on a g5. I learned it at SAE in Europe. It's a german program so it is big out there. Honestly, I don't ever want to learn another DAW again. I can fake my way through protools if I need to. I hate learning software.

Logic seems good for midi, really good for external midi and I do a lot of that. I record drums with logic alot and the editing I do is just cutting loops of multiple tracks of drums. With logic 9 you can do better editing but I have not upgraded yet.
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Post by EvanMidds » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:39 am

For me Sonar has done the trick project after project. I started using Cakewalk about 12 years ago and have just kept with them ever since. I used DP and Pro Tools a bit in college and got to know Tracktion fairly well in the past few years however I'm back to Sonar now about 98% of the time. I mainly stick with Audio, however I am a big fan of the M-Tron synth but outside of that I'm not doing a whole lot of MIDI.

In terms of file management I've got Sonar setup to save all the audio files in a project folder specific to the song. This isn't anything new in the world of software but just throwing it out there as a very convenient way to keep multiple projects separate without mixing up raw audio tracks/mixes etc. Also I'm currently working on a project with a buddy back in Seattle using the Cakewalk Bundle file passed back and forth over FTP I really like that approach, one harmless looking little file downloaded and expanded out inside of Sonar containing all the info, raw tracks, edits and plug settings I need.

I keep my PC really stripped down, Vista looks like basic XP with all the eye candy turned off. I'm also using the UAD 2 Quad which frees up resources regarding plug-ins.

All in all I'll put in a good word for Sonar, like raweber said it does seem to fly under the radar but I'm comfortable with it and it works for me.
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Post by Sean Shannon » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:29 pm

SONAR on a PC is excellent. I used mac for years with PT, logic, DP. Worked OK, hate the beach ball, hate the constant OS upgrades and the added expense of everything 'mac'.

I was faced with the same question at upgrade time a couple of years ago, and I haven't regretted going PC for a minute. SONAR is Cakewalk's HD system, and works very well, and the sound is amazing.

Another benefit to PC, besides the cost savings, is the sheer number of cool utilities and programs that are available for Windows.

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Post by flapmaggot » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:16 pm

Great info on Sonar - I've downloaded the trial on a slow computer. But at lease I can check out the layout. I don't do midi yet but am interested in M-tron and a funk clav.

Keep it comin and I'll keep ya'll posted.

Chuck

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Post by frshwtrbob » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:15 pm

Things have been changing since the start of this thread - the i7 920 processor teamed up with Sonar 8.5.2 and Windows 7 pro 64 bit are giving PT. Logic. and Cubase all a run for their "MONEY".
Stability has become less of an issue than it has in the past as long as there's a good amount (6GB) of triple channel ram installed. The bit bridge and J bridge sftware now allows for 32 bit stuff to run in 64 bit machines.
No need to bow yer head to Mac users any longer. Look em' straight in the eye.

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Post by junomat » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:23 am

+1 Apple and Logic. Hands down.

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Post by NewAndImprov » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:03 am

I just upgraded to a new Mac Pro and Logic 9, and I'm loving it. I've used Logic for about 10 years, a lot of that time was v6 on a 1.8Ghz G5, that setup was totally stable. I moved to Logic 8 last year, and my computer could barely handle it, and just recently I could budget for a new computer. I edit audio all day in Logic, and I'm so used to the Logic workflow that it works fine for me.

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LazarusLong
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Post by LazarusLong » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:29 pm

flapmaggot wrote:Raweber,

How is the stability factor wiith your PC and Sonar?
Theoretically, the same as Mac / OS X. The trick is this: how any different hardware configurations are there for Macs? Maybe a dozen at a given time? And most of those have several shared components anyway. In PC-land, there's a nearly infinite number of possible hardware configurations. Sure, the parts are "compatible", but on the Mac there's no questions. You code software for a Mac, you know EXACTLY was configurations you're dealing with. This allows for very tight coding, and seemingly higher efficiency on OS X systems.

Digidesign has a HUGE list of do's and don'ts when using a PC with ProTools. This is a somewhat telling website: http://digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid ... emid=23006 I know we're not discussing ProTools specifically, but we are talking about DAWs on PCs.
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casey campbell
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Post by casey campbell » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:44 pm

i haven't used logic very much, but my main daw is sonar. i absolutely love it. it's cheaper overall, just as powerful, and is extremely fast. for instance, i recently tracked an amazing well known band. im talkin' some of the best musicians in their genre good... they were some hired guns for a larger project. anyway, the arranger and writer of most of the music was working with me, getting some production stuff out of the way, and he says, "you know, when we heard you were using sonar, we were questioning if you were even a serious studio, but now that i've been here for a while and see how it really is, you are making me want to go buy it! we can't believe how much more intuitive it is than pro-tools. it's just so quick, it allows us to create music without the daw getting in the way."

one thing to keep in mind too, is that if a p.c. goes down, you can replace a part very quickly and cheaply...and most computer shops have p.c. parts out the wazoo. if a mac goes down, good luck!

if you do decide to get sonar, i'd say pick sonar producer edition. it's the best!

here's a review:

http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/comp ... 194/review

with all that said...sonar and logic are just different means to an end. they both have their strengths and weaknesses. it's kind of like comparing a corolla and an accord. they'll both get you to your destination. it just depends on what features you'd like. the only difference, is that to run logic, you gotta spend a whole lot of money on the machine and have only a few options for interfaces, vs. a whole slew of interfaces and a more affordable machine. i own both macs and p.c.'s, and i've had both crash on me. the p.c. i got going within a few hours, whereas the mac, when it went down, it was an invidia video chip on the mother board (or logic board as apple would call it). with the p.c., i was back up and running with just a few moments, where as the mac, it took several days to get the parts in and the motherboard replaced.

in other words, it's not so much of the daw that matters, but rather everything else you have to keep in mind just to get the daw running. if you are going to be a professional studio, you have to keep overhead costs in check. not only today, but in days and years to come.

good luck.
Last edited by casey campbell on Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by asmara » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:59 pm

If your comfortable with computers go for used mac g5/fireface/logic 8 or 9.

flapmaggot
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Post by flapmaggot » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:15 pm

Update - because of the economy and the fact that I would have to buy a different host card for my RME Multiface if I went with a MAC ($500!!) etc....I went with PC quad 4/Sonar 8 system. I got the "creation station" from sweetwater and told them to load it with XP, not vista, so that I can use my older pugs that I know and love. So far I am digging Sonar with the new instrument track and easy access to vsynths. Being a CEP/Adobe Audition user, there was a bit of a learning curve but once you dig in, you realize "why" Sonar does what it does and gives you so many options.

I thought Adobe rated low in the area of support and customer service. File management sucked so I am glad I jumped ship to Sonar.

Thanks for the advice!

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casey campbell
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Post by casey campbell » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:14 pm

flapmaggot wrote:Update - because of the economy and the fact that I would have to buy a different host card for my RME Multiface if I went with a MAC ($500!!) etc....I went with PC quad 4/Sonar 8 system. I got the "creation station" from sweetwater and told them to load it with XP, not vista, so that I can use my older pugs that I know and love. So far I am digging Sonar with the new instrument track and easy access to vsynths. Being a CEP/Adobe Audition user, there was a bit of a learning curve but once you dig in, you realize "why" Sonar does what it does and gives you so many options.

I thought Adobe rated low in the area of support and customer service. File management sucked so I am glad I jumped ship to Sonar.

Thanks for the advice!
if you happen to have any questions about sonar, feel free to ask. perhaps i can help.

good luck.

flapmaggot
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Post by flapmaggot » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:05 pm

Thanks Casey - I'm sure I'll run myself into a brick wall at some point :D - Thanks for the support!

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