The KM184, is it really that overpriced?

[Ryan Silva]

I currently have 2 pairs of SDC's, a pair of Shure KSM141's and a pair of Chameleon Labs TS-1's., and I love them both. I do however find myself needing a fifth SDC when doing close miced drums.

I have read a number of reviews on these mics and the common reaction is, "They don't sound as good as the KM84" and, "Overpriced". Well I have a offer on a demo unit available to me for $650. My question is, am I going to find a use for the KM184 that wouldn't be able to be filled with my other two pairs?

I am surprised I have never used either the 84 or the 184, but they have never crossed my path.

Thanks

[Meriphew]

I have a stereo pair of KM-184's. I like them, but would not buy them at their current price (I bought my pair brand new for $1k). I'd look at mics by Josephson or MG.

[locosoundman]

KM84 and KM184 are two completely different animals.

The KM84 is no longer made. I believe these had a transformer in the output stage and have a much different sound quality from the 184.

The 184 is the "affordable" version of the KM140. Unlike the 140, the capsule cannot be changed so you are stuck with the cardioid pattern only. Also, the output electronics are a bit different. Among other things, the 140 has better RF rejection and has a different sound. I know the 140 has a built-in switchable -10dB pad; not sure about the 184.

I always hesitate to use words like "better" or "worse" but the difference between the 140 and the 184 is not "night-and-day" but the 140's are often considered the "better" sounding mic. On the other hand, the 184 has a better self-noise spec and is half the price.

The 184 is useful on acoustic guitars, overheads, high hats, and pretty much anything you would use a SDC condenser for. I don't know the KSM or the Chameleon Labs mic's first hand, but the 184 is a good solid workhorse SDC mic.

$650 is not a bad deal, though I think you could get a brand new one for about $100 more. I've seen used ones go for as little as $400, so maybe you could work the price down a little more towards $600.

[Jeff White]

I have a friend's KM184 over here on permanent loan, and it is the backup sdc when I need a third. My flagship pair of sdc mics are a pair of OktavaMod MK-012s. I love these mics. They sound very natural to my ears. My go-to mics for overheads and acoustic instruments.

You can get a pair of OktavaMod Mk-012s (Michael Jolly modified Oktava MK-012s) for the same price as the deal you have on the KM-184.

http://www.oktavamodshop.com/index.php? ... i83t737sj4

I had my Oktavas for 7 years stock and used them on a lot of recordings. The mods are well worth it and I feel that these mics will really make you happy on a variety of sources.

Jeff

[Sean Sullivan]

I seen used ones for $350 on occasion, I'd hold out for a better deal.

[oldguitars]

I love my 184's. While I don't think they are better than other SDC's, when they are right, they are amazing. That being said, the oktava mod pair for about the same price is hard to resist.

I would look at used 184's or oktava

[Ryan Silva]

Thanks folks, I will keep my eye out for some used. My other question was would anyone consider them a 'color' mic? I mean my KSM141's are certainly not color mics, and because of the pentode design I would consider the TS-1's colored. I guess what I?m looking for is a 'Transparent'(god I hate using these terms) microphone.

Something for Acoustic neck, and bottom snare. Also something that can handle the messiness of High Hats.

Thanks

[GetHimEatHim]

Not to sound like a broken record, but I've had great results using Avenson omni SDC's in both of those applications, especially acoustic guitar neck (never tried on hi-hats, but love how they pick up hi-hats as overheads). Not sure what your requirements are re: polar pattern, but I have a bunch of SDCs (AT4041s and Pro 37s, Groove Tubes GT44's, Oktava MC-012's, a KSM-141) and I find myself reaching for the Avensons all the time when I want something fast, open and transparent, but not at all harsh, tinny or "scrapey" [for lack of a better word]. Not sure if you're thinking more directional / "spot mic," in which case I'd check out either the Pelusos or the Josephsons. I've never been a big fan of KM184's, but I've only heard them, not used them....

[Meriphew]

I guess what I?m looking for is a 'Transparent'(god I hate using these terms) microphone.

The 184's are not going to sound transparent. They are a brighter sounding mic.

[KennyLusk]

IMHO you might get more mileage from a pair of Joly modded 012's. They're extremely versatile handling everything from toms (esp. w/EH12AY7 pre) to classical nylon string guitar...and lots of normal app's in between.

Take a look at this page also on Joly's site for KM84 clone recommendations: http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product_in ... cts_id=120

I'm a big fan of the MXL 990/603 capsule once physical body/headbasket/capsule housing issues have been addressed. These are excellent capsules and can be scored on the cheap, $70 individually or around $190 for a pair. Then have Joly mod them according to your needs. My 990 even with just basic mods I've made myself does very well with string harp, AC guitar and guitar amps. In an SDC body though the 603 would work well for you after the capsule housing mod (most important IMO). Premium electronics upgrade improves the quality of signal, tames coloration, and makes the signal a lot smoother.

[Michael_Joly]

You can hear the KM 184 against the mod'd 603 on 5 sources here.

These are my KM 184's btw. I bought them because I needed an "industry standard SDC" and yes, I think they're overpriced. The mod'd 603s are flat, have great bass extension, no 8kHz peak (like the stock version) and lovely 12-16kHz air. But if you want to buy my 184s now that I'm done with them I'll sell them at a good price.

[Ryan Silva]

You can hear the KM 184 against the mod'd 603 on 5 sources here.

These are my KM 184's btw. I bought them because I needed an "industry standard SDC" and yes, I think they're overpriced. The mod'd 603s are flat, have great bass extension, no 8kHz peak (like the stock version) and lovely 12-16kHz air. But if you want to buy my 184s now that I'm done with them I'll sell them at a good price.

Well that's pretty impressive; I only heard very slight differences between the two mics. One being low mid response (with the acoustic) seems to be a touch more defined on the 184, but only by a very small amount.

Hmmm?

[T-rex]

I have a set of MC-012's that I did the scott dorsey mod on for like $25 a mic and I think they sound amazing. Before the mod they were great but the mod really beefed up the mic's bottom and mid and smoothed out the top. If you are tech savy at all, that is around $125 for a really solid sounding mic.

[cgarges]

My problem with using the 184s on drumkit is that they can't really handle those types of sounds up-close. There's either too much signal before the output electronics, so the mic distorts, or the output is too high for most preamps (or both). I've found some instances where I really like them as overheads (paired with a slower preamp, like an old Neve), but I can't get into using them on snare or toms or anything. I suppose they'd be cool for hi hat, but I don't know that I've ever used one there. I use hi hat mics so rarely and when I do, it's almost always an AKG 451 or something weird.

The KM84s, on the other hand, are favorites of mine on drumkit.

For me, acoustic guitar and bottom snare will usually sound great with a KSM141. Maybe you should think about getting one of the cardioid-only Shures--- the 139 or 137 or whatever it's called. I think the 141 is a pretty damn transparent microphone. In fact, the first time Brian Paulson mixed a record that I tracked, he was asking me about the 141s, since they were listed on the track sheets and he was so impressed he was going to sell his KM184s and get some of the Shures. I don't know if he did or not.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC