Recording An Organ Through A Fender Guitar Amp

goldanimals · Post by **goldanimals** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:57 pm

I'll keep this simple. My band is recording soon. I am doing the tracking. We are running a Nord and some other various real organs through a Fender Hotrod Deville 4x10. I would usually use a SM57 on it like a guitar. Any other points of advice?

I have a few ribbons and a few condensers and I have some money lying around.

Thanks.

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:14 pm

That money lying around will negatively affect the acoustics. I'd suggest sending it all to me so that you won't have to compensate for what it does to the acoustics of your room.

After that, I'd suggest trying all of your mics on the amp and using the one that sounds best to you.

Good luck!

goldanimals · Post by **goldanimals** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:17 pm

Thanks for the advice man, expect an envelope in 10-15 business days. Just send me your gold, I'll send you cash back! Just kidding.

But yes, I plan to test everything. I plan to put every mic in every position in the room to find the sweet spot. My point is, that is implied but thank you for the advice anyway. I was just trying to get some pointers or stories of other mics working that maybe I could try to borrow or pick up for cheap.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:24 pm

I'd personally be checking out the ribbons on that. Organs can get harsh in the highs, ribbons oughta smooth it out nicely.

jgimbel · Post by **jgimbel** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:41 pm

I was going to suggest a ribbon too. Getting a good organ sound often isn't too difficult as long as the highs aren't being a problem, and since Fenders tent to be a bit high-heavy, a ribbon would fit the bill. Organ through a Fender sounds like it'd be a unique sound, I might have to try that.

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:12 pm

Find a good spot in the room so the amp sounds good first, then use the mics you have in various combinations until you get the sound you want. Ribbons and large dynamic mics, like the re20, sm7 and sen md421 sound espcailly good when micing amp'd organs. Move the mic towards the edge of the cone if it's too harsh. Try a 57 on the grill and a ribbon about 3 feet directly back. Try off axis 57 and an off access large dynamic facing the same location on the speaker. Throw the amp in a tile bathroom or stairwell for some natural echo.

Also if you are doing some leslie stuff....do you have a second amp to record in stereo? In can sound really cool most of the time, but sometimes it also adds to much when mixed into the song. I recently recorded a Nord, and we ended up using it direct on a few tracks because it was perfect for the song. So I wouldn't eliminate that possibility either. Either way experiment.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:39 pm

bear in mind that most guitar amps don't have much "real treble."

Most guitar amp speakers roll off pretty dramatically above 6k or so.

Sometimes you can get stuff 'up there' with fuzz pedals and such. With 10" speakers, the bulk of the sound will be between about 80 and 6000 Hz give or take.

Anything you run through a guitar amp is going to sound like it is run through a guitar amp. So you could begin with treating it like you would treat anything else running through a guitar amp, and move from there. At least that's where I'd start.

You might take a DI off the organ, too. Often, certain kinds of organ can sound real good (larger than life) with a good DI track.

roygbiv · Post by **roygbiv** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:54 pm

My Farfisa sounds better through my Fender amp (a Pro Reverb) if I set both the treble and bass settings on the amp to zero, then raise them just a bit to taste.

A lot smoother, more even sounding with everything flat (apparently on old Fender amps, zero is flat, not 5).

goldanimals · Post by **goldanimals** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:12 am

Thanks for the advice thus far. My keys man has a Farfisa as well, so that helps. This is going to be fun.

blackdiscoball · Post by **blackdiscoball** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:13 am

I always like a little distance between my organ speaker and mic for a little more room. It seems like a little room helps organ mix a little better in a mix.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:32 pm

roygbiv wrote:My Farfisa sounds better through my Fender amp (a Pro Reverb) if I set both the treble and bass settings on the amp to zero, then raise them just a bit to taste.

A lot smoother, more even sounding with everything flat (apparently on old Fender amps, zero is flat, not 5).

While the first part is something I've never tried, the second part of this is actually not true. Most of the Fender amp tone controls on the larger amps are conceived to be neutral with everything at noon (5 on blackface/brownface/silverface and between 6/7 on tweeds). However the blackface/silverface amps are voiced overall with a bit of a lower-mid 'scoop,' so perhaps that's what you're fighting against.

Most classic Fender amps WITH A MIDRANGE CONTROL will actually have very low volume (almost none) when all tone controls are turned down. It's the way the circuit is designed. Your amp (Pro Reverb) has no midrange control but instead a fixed resistor designed to simulate the midrange control approximately on "5." It actually has all the necessary parts for a midrange control... and you could even add one if you wanted, by substituting a pot for the fixed resistor (not recommended, of course, on a vintage amp). So your preferred setting is like turning bass and treble all the way down with midrange on "5."

One exception to all the above is the Pro Junior, which has a different type of tone control which does, in fact, seem to be neutral at 1 with a 'treble boost' above that. Another exception is the "more/less" subtractive LPF-style tone control like on some early/primitive designs, where the tone control is neutral at "full up."

The classic Fender 2- or 3-knob blackface/silverface tone stack is actually a very high-loss design, and the lower the controls are set, the more loss you have. The Farfisa Compact Combo (the most common) has a rather 'hot' output so that will overcome that a bit. The high loss inherent in lower tone control settings will attenuate it as well before it hits the second gain stage. So it's not that the amp is voiced to be 'neutral' with the controls at 1... it's not. It's that the amp itself is voiced to be bright and scooped, and the hot signal from a Farfisa is prone to overloading early stages and compensates for the high loss of the tone stack somewhat. It might seem like splitting hairs, but it's really not. It's kind of a different scenario.

Which brings me to another point-- the Farfisa WILL overload the front end of a tube amp with its hot output, causing preamp tube distortion, if the all-booster is on and the volume pedal is pushed full forward (and actually quite some time before that). Sometimes the distortion gets disguised a bit due to the nature of the all-booster's buzzy tone, but it's there. If you don't want that, use the padded (#2) input of the amp, if available. At extreme settings of the organ you might still overload it a bit. I once killed the 6K6 of a vintage Fender 6G15 Reverb by blasting a Farfisa through it. It was hitting the springs so hard that it was creating this wicked sound where the springs actually seemed to be shaking so hard they were hitting the side of the pan. Then shortly after that the 6K6 just tanked, making the most awful smell ever.

Finally, the very best sounds I've EVER gotten with a Farfisa were through a Radial JDI direct box. Simply huge, wide, and larger-than-life. It almost hurts to say because I have a rather large collection of awesome vintage amps and I don't really want to admit that none of them ever lived up to the direct sound, but...

The very best amped Farfisa sound I ever got actually came through an Ampeg B-25B with a single 15" speaker. The 15 seemed to 'treat the Farfisa right,' minimizing its harshness in all the right ways. I liked the result much better than any of the old guitar amps I have.

So there's some experiences to use as a jumping-off point. But seriously... take a DI off that organ before you get to the amp, "just in case." I wager that you will at LEAST end up blending the DI sound with the amped sound at mix time.

oilcanstudios · Post by **oilcanstudios** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:16 pm

nady rsm3 (royer ripoff 121) is killer on organ

and i suggest you get a squawkbox and use an external speaker

put the fender amp on a lazy susan and spin that thing around, make sure there is a drilled out hole in the bottom so that the cord doesnt tangle

i have no idea if that actually works, might be cool

bannerj · Post by **bannerj** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:07 pm

blackdiscoball wrote:I always like a little distance between my organ speaker and mic for a little more room. It seems like a little room helps organ mix a little better in a mix.

It's tough...whether you close mic or have some distance. Depends on the song and what you need.

I've just been micing a deville 4x10 with a telecaster. It is pretty bright right? I too love the ribbon about 4 inches back slightly off axis on one of the cones. But I missed some of the bite, so I also used an i5 as close to the Fathead as possible so that I could avoid phase issues.

pootkao · Post by **pootkao** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:16 pm

I don't like the DeVille's for recording. Live they're tolerable. In the studio they're both murky and brittle - my two least favorite things.

I used to love them. Until I started paying attention.

Get a decent head (Music Man, Fender, Ampeg, Mesa, Traynor, as long as its tubes) and a bass 4x10. Your keyboards will be awesome.

The 57 will suffice. A SM7 or M88 will be better. But a 57 will work.

(I just did a live recording of a Tortoise-esque band using just 421's and 57's with all keys, loops, fx, samplers etc going into Traynor heads and SWR 4x10's. Turned out great!)

mfdu · Post by **mfdu** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:38 pm

large diaphragm dynamic or ribbon, couple of feet back of the amp (tune amp to suit) + DI panned opposite to the amp.

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Recording An Organ Through A Fender Guitar Amp

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