New studio and living space.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:23 pm

here is my idea... this is what i would do, as for me, a control room, iso booth, and lounge are all crucial.

i see you as someone who will be recording lots of different stuff, not just your own stuff, or only one genre, and the one room thing limits you, i think... with a set up like this, you could track live rock stuff with ease, do acoustic music, singer/songwriter with the sensitive person in the iso booth and the band in the live room, etc... two amps mic'd in the iso booth with a gobo between them... 3 piece horn section in the iso booth with the rhythm section in the live room, bass DI... etc...

to me, this maximizes the space, but gives you the flexibility you need to be a good commercial facility for all types of music. having the lounge attached to the back of the CR means that people can go talk and brew some coffee, but still leave the door open and hear what's going on in the CR, you can hit record and sprint to the bathroom for a pre-chorus piss, etc...

i'm really happy for you dude. keep us all updated!

john

bannerj · Post by **bannerj** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:08 am

That Ethan Johns interview way back when points out that he doesn't have a separate tracking room. When asked how he could reference everything, he said he just recorded something and played it back. Hmmmm.....

If you want something better than those extreme isolation headphones, get some high end in ears and get the mold.

I wouldn't bother with an iso booth though. Just build some nice looking gobos of various shapes and sizes. I personally don't like that completely dry sound on vocals anyway. With the gobos you can change the sound of your room however you want to.

Jon Nolan · Post by **Jon Nolan** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:37 am

trodden wrote:If you did keep it a one room deal... would that also be without and iso booth? Cause i'm steering more to having an iso booth instead of a control room..

man, it sure seems to me, that since yer an OTB feller, you're really gonna run outta room in a control room as small as the latest "mock-up" - nevermind the need for treatment in order to hear it as it really is in a room of those dimensions. but anything is possible.

i'd love to have a control room actually, but as far as needs vs. wants, a booth large enough for someone to sing and play gtr in would win over a CR. i can pretty much deal with almost everything in my room, but the problem that reoccurs the most is too much ____ bleeding into the vocal mic when i cut bands live.

EDIT:
also, if no vox are live, a booth for atleast one gtr amp, bass direct and drums in the "big room" makes for a purty practical deal.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:13 pm

trodden wrote:If you did keep it a one room deal... would that also be without and iso booth? Cause i'm steering more to having an iso booth instead of a control room..

My studio will be smaller than yours, but it will be a one-room dealio with movable gobos for isolation. That said, I doubt I'll be tracking many full bands all at once, it will mostly be an overdub/mix room.

Even in a larger space like yours, I'd still be inclined for a one room design. Just make sure you have some good gobos, and have skills utilizing null points of mics to gain iso.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 pm

bannerj wrote:That Ethan Johns interview way back when points out that he doesn't have a separate tracking room. When asked how he could reference everything, he said he just recorded something and played it back. Hmmmm.....

If you want something better than those extreme isolation headphones, get some high end in ears and get the mold.

I wouldn't bother with an iso booth though. Just build some nice looking gobos of various shapes and sizes. I personally don't like that completely dry sound on vocals anyway. With the gobos you can change the sound of your room however you want to.

yeah gobos won't keep out the airplanes landing at boeing field down the street.. loud rock bands, planes not a problem... bassoon, violin and cello or light vocals.... there's a problem. I normally have loud rock bands.. but this past year have had a few sessions cutting violins, woodwinds, soft vocals and had issues with unwanted noise. mostly roommates galluping around upstairs or deciding to flush every toilet in the house for 20 minutes. fuck, can't wait to be free of that...

I can't afford to bulk up the whole building for isolation, but having a large enough booth that has enough mass and such.. would be nice...

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:43 pm

Jon Nolan wrote: man, it sure seems to me, that since yer an OTB feller, you're really gonna run outta room in a control room as small as the latest "mock-up" - nevermind the need for treatment in order to hear it as it really is in a room of those dimensions. but anything is possible.

Totally.. and i don't really see myself going totally in the box anytime soon. I love my console, i love my outboard.. i love my hundreds of pounds of snake cable tieing it all together.

And having the booth big enough for two amps, gobo between them would be great.

i cut bands totally live in my current space with NO iso booths..but i'm in a control room.. I love it.. it works.. Vocals are always done later...

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:46 pm

JWL wrote:
Even in a larger space like yours, I'd still be inclined for a one room design. Just make sure you have some good gobos, and have skills utilizing null points of mics to gain iso.

got da skillz!! i track full bands live in my basement currently. bleed is something i enjoy!

but as mentioned above would like to have a "safe" room where i can record insect farts AND/OR have stacks up to 11 past the 10:00 curfew.

Landlord said If i don't do any sound isolation, I just got to have any loud rock bands done by 10. That is a limitation i've dealt with for the past 5 years in my current place and I've had no problems working with that..

And would like to reinstate, hope to be doing more and more tracking full bands in commercial facilities as well.. Its jus tso much easier doing it somewhere that has been designed and built for that purpose...

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:50 pm

toaster3000 wrote:
i'm really happy for you dude. keep us all updated!

john

Hey, thanks John! I'm excited but totally nervous as well..

Thanks for the mock up idea. If this was going to be JUST a studio, and not a living space for me and my girl, I would definitely use your ideas.. I like that layout. But since this will also be an apartment for us.. I really can't take it all up like that..

Its got to be kinds "chameleon" style. She's cool with me using the big room for a control room and a place to mix and track bands... and it will be our living area, besides the bedroom, bath, etc when I'mm not working. She's a musician as well and totally supportive.

Now if we do end up getting a second space.. this would be a great GREAT little studio. I would then invest the money on a proper build out, and turn my future bedroom into a lounge/sleeping area for out of town'ers. Maybe the future holds this.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:06 am

Ah, I didn't know it was for you and your girl, totally understand that it can't be 90% studio...

In that case, maybe just do only the iso booth and put the console maybe down in the lower left? I have never done a one room studio, so I don't know where the best place for the console would be.

In anycase, in a few years you will probably be using this as just a studio and living elsewhere, at which point you can do a proper build out!

I'm hoping to get to Seattle soon with my wife. I have family out there, and haven't been in years.

John

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:33 am

Yeah, if iso is a concern then it might make sense. My one room will have good iso when I'm done.

Just be wary of making a great iso booth that is too small to sound good.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:56 am

Small iso booths can sound great. The booth in the back left of room c at avatar comes to mind...

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:49 am

toaster3000 wrote:Ah, I didn't know it was for you and your girl, totally understand that it can't be 90% studio...

In that case, maybe just do only the iso booth and put the console maybe down in the lower left? I have never done a one room studio, so I don't know where the best place for the console would be.

In anycase, in a few years you will probably be using this as just a studio and living elsewhere, at which point you can do a proper build out!

I'm hoping to get to Seattle soon with my wife. I have family out there, and haven't been in years.

John

totally what i'm thinking. start with an iso kinda where you put one in your post above... then put the control area to the left of that in the lower left for the time... then if things change in the future... i can then swap out the control room area over to the area you suggested in your sketch and turn the rest into live room, based on your excellent points of having the main entrance in the CR as well as access to the lounge/bathroom.

yeah, if you ever make it up here, let me know!

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:50 am

JWL wrote:Yeah, if iso is a concern then it might make sense. My one room will have good iso when I'm done.

Just be wary of making a great iso booth that is too small to sound good.

totally. Don't want the "closet" effect.

And possibly will build it out of "inside out" walls.

trodden · Post by **trodden** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:10 pm

Here are some iso booth ideas.

V. 1 gives me an iso booth with some non parallel walls... but leaving my control room area with nonsymmetrical walls...

V. 2 gives me a bunch of parallel surfaces... but with some symmetry with the mix area..

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:00 am

toaster3000 wrote: singer/songwriter with the sensitive person in the iso booth...

this made me laugh.

i like v2, that looks like a good layout brandy.

also, gobos.

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