Getting your name in the credits

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Sean Sullivan
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Getting your name in the credits

Post by Sean Sullivan » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:54 am

I've been working with an engineer on a film soundtrack, and this is the first thing I've done that will get released nationally and the only thing more than 100 people will listen to :wink:

I've been working as an assistant engineer, shooting some video for a "making of" documentary, and editing the Pro Tools sessions and sending rough mixes out to various people involved in the film.

I enjoy working with the musicians and feel I've developed a good friendship with them...heck I went to on of their house the other day to drop off some mixes and ended up staying for two hours!

So, I'd like my name to be in the film and soundtrack credits, but how do I go about making sure that happens? I think this film, and certainly the soundtrack could go somewhere.
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Post by djimbe » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:16 am

Ask? Pester?

This is a tough one, and needs to be dealt with fairly early on in planning for packaging and stuff. I just recently got a credit that I don't feel was quite deserved at the same time that I noticed someone more deserving was left off the credit list. I didn't see that omission until I got official packaging, so it's kinda too late to rectify now. It was my buddy's project, but he didn't run the list past me so I couldn't make sure it was fully correct.

Make your wishes known to the engineer at least, and the project coordinator (if there is one and you know who it is). Be upfront about your desire and your contribution. There's no harm in asking that your contribution is recognized, just understand that you probably need to open the discussion. The project I was involved with was also a soundtrack/film project and the credit list is LONG. Especially the film side. There must have been 40 people on the set and there were folks in the shadows too. The Director/Composer had to keep track of much of that, and it can be a chore, especially when their focus is the product not who did what.

"Say something before it's too late" may sound simple and pat, but it's the best advice I can give based on the things I've been involved in.
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Post by JGriffin » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:44 pm

What Jim said. Plus, find out who the Producer is and try to speak to him directly, if you don't get any love from whoever hired you in the first place. Especially if it's a lower-budget film where "your name in the credits" is often offered in lieu of actual pay, getting your name in should be no trouble for them.
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Post by Brian » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:21 pm

Next time, start with some kind of contract and insist on getting credit AND that if any editing is done after your final mix, they MUST RE-CONFORM.

OR ELSE!! They can NOT use your name.
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Post by Sean Sullivan » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:58 pm

Cool, I really didn't know who to bring it up to. The engineer I work for has know the producer/project coordinator/musician for years, his kids call him their "uncle" so there is a lot of personally invested in this project for a lot of people. I honestly don't think it will be any problem, and they have been paying me for everything I do, but I better be safe and ask.
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Post by SoulOfJonas » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:42 am

I think the ask/pester/reconfirm advice is all good but I don't know if there is any definite way to make sure you end up in the credits, especially as an assistant engineer.

After nearly every session I engineer or assist, I'll ask the artist and/or producer to please take down my name (and contact info if needed) for inclusion in the album credits. If I know the album they're working on won't be coming out for a long while, I'll even ask if it's cool that I write my name down on a note or whatever to be shoved in the case with their hard drive or tape. A bunch of times people have even asked me how to correctly spell my name. Everybody always says "of course" and is totally cool with the idea and I know 95% of them genuinely mean it when we're talking BUT at this point I've seriously lost count of how many times I've been left off the credits of album I've worked on. I honestly don't think any of these people ever did it out of spite or malice but I do think that most of em just plain SUCK at record keeping and looking through their notes.

It just happened again actually. I assisted on a ton of sessions for the latest album by a particular folk parody duo from New Zealand and my name wasn't included in the credits. This one particularly stings because I was told my name was actually submitted to the people doing the artwork.

It's definitely a bummer but you shouldn't hold grudges, though. It just sorta happens. By the time any album gets finished people are usually rushing to get it out. The artwork and credits get done in a hurry and names get lost or misspelled.

I'll tell you this, though: If my name wasn't printed in the credits but I know I really contributed and did some real work and I really dig the record, you better believe I'm gonna include it on MY "resume" and list of credits. If anybody were ever to say "hey, but your name's not on the album", I know I worked on it and most of the time I have the contact info for those artists/producers to prove it.

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Post by Brian » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 am

It doesn't matter if the guy is his own grandpaw, If you make sure you get a contract for your work, it DOES NOT happen.
Get A CONTRACT. Then they will have your name and be dang sure to put it where it's supposed to be. You also won't get dicked on your check, and you'll get a rep of not screwing around about important stuff and not being an idiot.
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Post by TapeOpLarry » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:55 pm

In lieu of a contract, I've been meaning to print up sheets for different sessions that explain exactly how I'd like to be credited for certain types of projects. Many times the artist/manager/label/graphic designer interaction is pretty messy, with dropped communication. Having a sheet with my preferred credits would help immensely, and I could email the same info to the label and anyone working on the album.

The best situation was working on Elliott Smith's New Moon CD, as I collected and wrote the majority of the liner notes...

Yeah, contracts would be great, but I've still never had one for any normal recording sessions. I would be laughing my ass off if a person assisting me handed over a contract to an artist or manager and I hadn't even presented one. In fact, I'd probably send them packing if I was producing...
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Post by @?,*???&? » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:02 pm

I've gotten boned on engineering credits I was promised during the course of a project and it was typically due to band management or label that did not credit accordingly. I've always gotten the assisting credits, but not necessarily the 'additional engineering' credits I've sought for doing such work. I'd usually view it as the producer responsibility to follow-through and make sure those credits were correct. I can understand on how that can slip through the cracks. One certainly must be persistent with this. I'm with Larry though, unless you are contracted as a Producer, I wouldn't expect to see ANY kind of contract for engineering- first, additional, assistant or otherwise. That's all word of mouth.
Last edited by @?,*???&? on Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Brian » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:43 pm

TapeOpLarry wrote:In lieu of a contract, I've been meaning to print up sheets for different sessions that explain exactly how I'd like to be credited for certain types of projects. Many times the artist/manager/label/graphic designer interaction is pretty messy, with dropped communication. Having a sheet with my preferred credits would help immensely, and I could email the same info to the label and anyone working on the album.

The best situation was working on Elliott Smith's New Moon CD, as I collected and wrote the majority of the liner notes...

Yeah, contracts would be great, but I've still never had one for any normal recording sessions. I would be laughing my ass off if a person assisting me handed over a contract to an artist or manager and I hadn't even presented one. In fact, I'd probably send them packing if I was producing...
I have.
In a contract you can spell out exactly how to get out of it if the relationship isn't working for any reason. You can spell out IF you want to be credited as some projects you'll work, take the money, but, don't want your name on it.
If it was assisting, or engineering, then the contract would go to the contracting producer. No sense going around the person in charge of the sessions. I'm guessing you aren't in the union either. There's another way to make sure your credited, join the union in charge in your area, probably the IBEW or some other body.
They will probably have a contract that is pretty much fill in the blanks.
This isn't knocking anyone's ethos or procedure, but, while everyone is being right about sidestepping contracts, communication, negotiation, and standard practices of operation, and firing people who would present them, these people who do work which sometimes "should" be credited are having problems getting that, the very reason for the question.
Also, it wasn't clear "to me" that this is an "assistant only" topic.

Get a decent contract and don't work for anyone who laughs at, or, won't honor one, this industry won't ever get straightened out by not holding anyone accountable for honoring agreements.

However, assistants who suck but still get used "because there's no one else around", should be shot, or, dragged behind horses.

Me personally, I wouldn't work for anyone who won't sign a contract, which spells out exactly what's going to happen and what's to be expected of whom, how much magic pixie dust I'm going to use and especially EXACTLY how I'll be paid and credited (if I even care about being credited). Not having one is tantamount to leaving the business un-negotiated and an open door for arguments, disappointment, upset everybody, total lack of self responsibility, and the best way to make sure you and your business keeps being screwed.

Ya know, there's nothing wrong with loving what you do, and doing it long enough to be very good at it, and running it like a successful business and succeeding, not a dang thing wrong with that.

But minorleages is only an assistant, so , won't be gettin no contracts, that's a fact.
Last edited by Brian on Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by joel hamilton » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:35 pm

you can email the producer and everyone at once and just say you are emailing to let them know how to spell your name correctly. you can even put the credit in their minds.. like, "Mixed by" or "assistant engineer" or whatever.. with your name, spelled correctly.

Its a good way to just put it out there and then just do the next record. Do a lot of records.

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Re: Getting your name in the credits

Post by Brian » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:02 pm

minorleagues wrote:I've been working with an engineer on a film soundtrack, and this is the first thing I've done that will get released nationally and the only thing more than 100 people will listen to :wink:

I've been working as an assistant engineer, shooting some video for a "making of" documentary, and editing the Pro Tools sessions and sending rough mixes out to various people involved in the film.

I enjoy working with the musicians and feel I've developed a good friendship with them...heck I went to on of their house the other day to drop off some mixes and ended up staying for two hours!

So, I'd like my name to be in the film and soundtrack credits, but how do I go about making sure that happens? I think this film, and certainly the soundtrack could go somewhere.
I apologize Larry, what I meant to say is:
hey minorleagues, shush sh, quiet.
Your first thing realeased as an assistant engineer and you made friends with the band on a drop off "you think".
I think you need to be an engineer first and I think you better keep your idea that you get to have your name in the credits quiet, you might get canned if your engineer gets wind of this. Sh, sh, sh. You can drop the idea off with the engineer over you but, don't push it going around your boss. Like Larry, I'd fire you for that.
Harumph!

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Post by TapeOpLarry » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:40 pm

Thanks for the backup, Brian.

If you're just starting out in the recording biz and are on your first few projects, you're lucky you're working at all. Official credit or no credit, you did the work and can claim it on your resume. Not like anyone has liner notes on albums any more anyway! Nor do they watch the end of a movie to see who the assistant guy was. Just keep working, maybe present contracts when it seems needed (uh, in advance!) and if you're good and people like you it'll work out.
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Post by L-ROX » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:23 pm

minorleagues wrote:The engineer I work for has know the producer/project coordinator/musician for years, his kids call him their "uncle" so there is a lot of personally invested in this project for a lot of people.
After reading this, I would advice you NOT to contact the producer directly, as you will be going over the engineer's head (your boss). You should talk to your boss and simply ask if you will be credited, maybe even start off by saying "this has been a great experience for me". You should be careful about how you ask for something like this because the way you come off can be off-putting to some people and you may never get any work from them later on.

I personally don't ask to be credited on anything, so when clients of mine ask me "how would you like to be credited on the album?" I then thank them for it and tell them (I also never ask for advance copies, I purchase my own copies when albums hit the stores).

I also don't like contracts for mixing/mastering work, I ask for money up front before I work. I realize this doesn't sit well for some people and have possibly lost work this way but I'm someone who will work their ass off for people as long as you see me eye-to-eye; I can't imagine me emailing someone a form and asking them to email/fax back for an engineering gig.

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Post by Brian » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:50 pm

L-ROX wrote:
minorleagues wrote:The engineer I work for has know the producer/project coordinator/musician for years, his kids call him their "uncle" so there is a lot of personally invested in this project for a lot of people.
After reading this, I would advice you NOT to contact the producer directly, as you will be going over the engineer's head (your boss). You should talk to your boss and simply ask if you will be credited, maybe even start off by saying "this has been a great experience for me". You should be careful about how you ask for something like this because the way you come off can be off-putting to some people and you may never get any work from them later on.
He should have done this UP FRONT, doing it now will piss someone off.
I personally don't ask to be credited on anything, so when clients of mine ask me "how would you like to be credited on the album?" I then thank them for it and tell them (I also never ask for advance copies, I purchase my own copies when albums hit the stores).

I also don't like contracts for mixing/mastering work, I ask for money up front before I work. I realize this doesn't sit well for some people and have possibly lost work this way but I'm someone who will work their ass off for people as long as you see me eye-to-eye; I can't imagine me emailing someone a form and asking them to email/fax back for an engineering gig.
I don't mix and master, I send mastering work out to a real mastering engineer, with a real mastering rig and lots of good experience.
Assistants don't have contracts, but, if you ask up front, you're odds of knowing where you stand at the end are real good. They'll either credit you, or, forget to and you'll know where you stand.
I wouldn't send a contract back and forth via email, and I don't charge a flat rate up front, if it takes longer and more, then you'll pay for it, I don't work for free, that's slavery and I ain't into it. 1/2 up front, it's a deposit, and for clients I know I don't charge them and for labels it's the same and a PO number.
Contracts, for those who CAN use them, spell out exactly how, what, and when stuff will be done and keep you as an engineer from holding the bag when someone else gets caught with their pants down and causes you to have to slow down or get material late.
Maybe someone will create a drama and leave you for putting contracts in front of them, but, that usually means they are out of money and weren't going to pay you anyway or were looking for a way to screw you. Anyone who can't work with a contract isn't worth working with. It's gonna cause a problem for you.

No offense intended, but, that's how it is.

Of course, none of this matters now, does it, he's just an assistant.
Harumph!

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