If there was software that made *lyrics* better...

[Jon Nolan]

...and it "magically" morphed and existing performance's words into better ones or something, via a plug in....would you use it?

if not, why?

if so, why?

Would it be any different than using software to make musical performance better?

why?

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Writing is like playing, singing etc, etc. The only thing that makes it better is practice and hard work. Auto-tune isn't a short cut to being able to sing well. At the end of the day shit is still shit.

[lyman]

I'm probably stupid for even giving thought to this, but you could theoretically make a plug like that. There are pretty good voice recognition programs out there like Dragon, so you could interface that with a rhyme dictionary/database. Maybe it wouldn't replace lyrics with "better" ones, but it could at least suggest alternatives. Kinda like the "thesaurus" feature in Word or something. I'm pretty sure singing would throw off the voice recognition software though.

Hell, i'm filing the patent for that today! Look for The Dylanator V.1.0 in online stores soon.

Jokes aside, I agree with junkshop. It takes practice, and even then not everybody is gonna "get it" (like me). It's like comedic timing - you got it or you don't.

[Jon Nolan]

Writing is like playing, singing etc, etc. The only thing that makes it better is practice and hard work. Auto-tune isn't a short cut to being able to sing well. At the end of the day shit is still shit.

totally man, i agree with everything you just said! but would you use this imaginary plug-in if it existed, and is it different than plugs that make performances better?

[JGriffin]

Would it be any different than using software to make musical performance better?

why?

Yes it would, in that performance-correction types of software require you to have at least composed a part first, and it "assists" you in executing it in such a way that you sound vaguely competent. AutoTune doesn't write your melodies for you.

[@?,*???&?]

Rhyme Wizard has existed since the 80's, where have you guys been?

[Boogdish]

Also musical performance has a more objective scale to judge by (is it on time, is it in key, does it have an excessive dynamic range or range of frequencies) than lyrics do. Lyrics are usually intended to invoke a feeling in the listener, how would an unfeeling machine be capable of gauging how well something invokes feeling?

[Jon Nolan]

cool, i'm psyched folks are up for a chat!

[JGriffin]

Rhyme Wizard has existed since the 80's, where have you guys been?

There are other songwriting-assist programs out there as well. I can't remember the name of the one that was sent to me. I don't know that I ever used it. My songs might not suck so much if I had...

[Jon Nolan]

Rhyme Wizard has existed since the 80's, where have you guys been?

trying to find a rhyme for orange!

[Jon Nolan]

also....


i have this fear, given how weird it is to communicate on forums where you can't see, or get a feel for people, that i might be coming across as having an axe to grind. that i'm trying to get people to say something like "digital is bad!" or "digital only!"

i *swear* this isn't what I'm getting at. To the contrary, I'm trying to ask myself questions about how I work, where I'm trying to go and what it is I believe in. I'm trying to figure out some personal, artistic, and basic principles to inform me and to look to. This just seems like a good place to hash it out. But I'm not trying to tell anybody what they should do or anything like that.

I love TapeOp the magazine, and this forum is one of the most helpful places around. Makes me bummed I missed all those TapeOpCons....

Anyway, fwiw....

[Jon Nolan]

Yes it would, in that performance-correction types of software require you to have at least composed a part first, and it "assists" you in executing it in such a way that you sound vaguely competent. AutoTune doesn't write your melodies for you.

i don't necessarily disagree with you at all! but what about questions, like:

writing is the execution of that part of the song. how else can i "execute" lyrics?

perhaps it's hyperbole, but what if a software program could analyze a bunch of yer favorite songwriters a la pandora. it breaks their lyrical choices down, looks for consistencies in word choices for subject matter, tempo, key, overall themes - whatever. then you drop down yer "factory presets" menu and choose "Dylan '60's, slow" or "Tom Waits swordfishtrombones" and it makes a bunch of lyrical change suggestions based on the analysis of your song and it's current form. or even morphs yer words into new ones in places.

so, what if - yes, in some completely imaginary alternate universe - there was something to take the lyrics i had sung, and change them, so that they are executed it in such a way that I sound vaguely competent? how is that different?

[JGriffin]

Yes it would, in that performance-correction types of software require you to have at least composed a part first, and it "assists" you in executing it in such a way that you sound vaguely competent. AutoTune doesn't write your melodies for you.

i don't necessarily disagree with you at all! but what about questions, like:

writing is the execution of that part of the song. how else can i "execute" lyrics?

This is a semantic sinkhole we're edging towards here. IMHO, unless you're extemporizing/ad-libbing, composition and performance are two separate processes. AutoTune (for example) can "repair" errors in performance but (unless used in a radical way) does nothing about "composition." So, to clarify my earlier statement: writing the song is "composition," singing or playing it is "performance." I will axe the word "execute" from the discussion.

[Jon Nolan]

This is a semantic sinkhole we're edging towards here. IMHO, unless you're extemporizing/ad-libbing, composition and performance are two separate processes. AutoTune (for example) can "repair" errors in performance but (unless used in a radical way) does nothing about "composition." So, to clarify my earlier statement: writing the song is "composition," singing or playing it is "performance." I will axe the word "execute" from the discussion.

nah, fair enough man. lemme withdraw for a while here and see if any of this will help me get at the real issue.

[Snarl 12/8]

If the software's definition of "better" was better than mine, I'd use it.

Edit: Actually, it would probably wind up putting a surrealist spin on everything that went through it, which I could go for in a big way. Sign me up!