What if you just suck?

[bannerj]

I just wanna say that your choice of thread titles either sucks, or is brilliant.

I'm not quite sure ...

Nice.

[firby]

My personal view is that the better-to-great mixing engineers have invested so much time, so much money in gear, and generally have a musically developed ear, as well as a developed doctrine of what they want and how they want to get it. They are wicked fast when you watch them work and their skill is often pretty evident.

They go for so cheap anymore (even the better-to-great ones) that I don't see the the need to try and better them when I could just co-opt their labor by working a deal with them. The quality of mixing that you can get for the dollar now a days is really kind of staggering.

So, I would rather just keep my nose to the grindstone producing music that may have value enough to warrant their vast talents.

I have a nice board and outboard gear here, and I will do my own mixes in pursuit of tracking great tunes, but I feel handing off anything really good for mixing by a pro is the best way for it to secure a foothold in the marketplace. If I am doing a more lo-fi mixtape kind of thing or other types of music for other industry then I would not hesitate to mix alot of that stuff myself. But a great mixer is needed for stuff that may earn money, it simply adds to much value to the end product to ignore.

[Autodidact]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately too. Maybe I just suck at mixing.

Something similar that I've thought of is that when I was in my teens (I'm 25) I jammed too many times in my friend's "little back room" with all the windows closed, half-stack Marshall cranked up to 11, bass thumping, drums snapping/popping and crashing, and dog-shit smell mixed with B.O., weed, beer, and cigs that I did irreparable damage to my ears that I could, even if i used to have the talent, hear anything good enough to hear what it is I'm trying to do.

Actually, I'm still stuck on that. Anyone else feel that way as well? Sometimes I do a mix of my stuff and it sounds not too bad, but that's after working on it for days and maybe tweaking at it once a month or something...and it still isn't great, it's just not terrible.

But then I hear that Pete Townsend did the surround mix of Tommy (TapeOp article) and he has tinnitus!?!?!

Sometimes I feel it's more about being able to just listen with your whole body. That if you 'practice mixing enough' you'll somehow learn to use your ears in a way that you work around your deficiencies, similar to Django Reinhardt. He had 2 useable fingers on his left hand and he did stuff you wasn't supposed to be able to do.

Sorry, got carried away...

[thethingwiththestuff]

I just got over a hump like this recently. Spent a lot of years recording my own bands and a few other people's, in poor rooms with FUCKING ALESIS M1MK2 monitors that I feel set me back years in mixing and listening. Did a lot of tech work just setting up systems and working in all-playback theaters without having a lot of time behind the board. After working on one of my own records for two years, I stopped home recording and just worked as a tech.

When I quit my last band, I joined another one helmed by one of the few "real" engineers in town. I observed him every chance I got, both in the studio and in clubs. I listened to his recordings of my playing. I compared our new record to the one I did for my last band.

Eventually, I picked up live shifts at a small but popular club because I knew the digital board, and I felt awful after my first few nights there. I knew my mixes were not what they should be at all. I began listening more intently at clubs when I was just out to see a show. I upgraded my home monitoring, and a whole new world of clear high end and rich lower mids opened up to me. On nights I was working, I observed when a band had their own engineer. I re-read a lot of stuff I felt I was well beyond...

Everyone will have this huge re-evalutation period from time to time in anything they do. I decided I was a bad retail shop owner, so I got out of that. I'm not sure how one decides they ultimately, finally, and completely "suck" at something. I wouldn't be continuing on my sound career with any success if I didn't get super lucky a few times. I think you need to weigh your chances of improving? Maybe evaluate your dedication to improving, and if mixing or any audio thing is absolutely top priority for you, then work through your weaknesses somehow.

[Rabbit]

I dunno, I've certainly had periods where I've wondered why the hell am I bothering. But really I love to record, mix, produce, play, etc. Whenever I've felt that way I've worked to narrow down specifics on what about my mixes I didn't like and went to work on acquiring more knowledge in that area and spent a lot of time experimenting with mixes to gain the hands on necessary to translate what I was hearing in my mind to hearing it come out of my monitors more consistently. Are my mixes perfect? Nope, but they're better and more consistent as a result and continue to improve so my effort's paid off.

A good place to start I think is identifying specific things about your mixes you don't like, take one song, and focus on one item within that song and work to improve it. If you take the higher view, my mixes suck, it can be quite overwhelming and discouraging. Best of luck to you.

[bestmixerever]

Watching someone mix can be like watching paint dry. Unless you're inside their head, you don't know what they're listening to/for at that moment. As an assistant, I watched and listened to what was going on and asked questions when the time was right. But I think I learned more from watching mediocre mixers struggle through every agonizing step. There always seemed to be a lot of tail chasing. One of the keys to mixing is listening to everything instrument together as well as individually ....at the same time. When you find yourself listening after hours of mixing and it seems like the whole thing has become unglued, walk away and listen to the mix from another room. Don't turn it up, just go to another room even it it's behind a closed door or up a flight of stairs, as long as you can still hear it. if there is something very wrong with the mix, you should be able to hear it instantly. You're not staring at your monitors,staring at a screen or a console, you're just listening. And it will typically be one or 2 things that are laughingly wrong. You'll find yourself thinking "does the hi hat really need to be 10X louder than the lead vocal or where's the acoustic guitar?" The big picture is somehow clearer from a distance for me. Very few people other than us geeks listen to records the way we mix them. For me, the idea of a mix is to translate the song transparently. Make any sense? A great mix is not about the snare sound it's about helping tell the story of the song.

[kinger]

It also doesn't hurt to go back and listen to some stuff you've done in the past. Do your recent mixes sound better than your old stuff? If so, you're improving so keep at it! I get in a funk from time to time but my mixes keep gradually getting better so I must be doing something right.

[jgimbel]

+1 for going in another room and listening. I don't know if it's something I do on purpose, I think part of it's subconscious, but whenever I'm mixing I always end up going up for a drink and just letting the mix play. It really does make things jump out when they're wrong. Often for me this is what lets me know when my quest for big bass has gone way over the top and I need to tone it down a bit, for example. When I'm listening to music and leave the room, I can generally still hear the same balance, so going for that makes sense while mixing.

[stoneman]

sitting in on other people's mixing sessions is great. try that if you can.

another thing to mention is...are you having fun mixing or not?

this is a hobby to me but MIXING my projects or friends' is by far the funnest part of the whole process. even if i have to mix it five times before it sounds good outside of my room. love it... i bet you don't suck, you just need to find some joy in it again...

if that doesn't happen try to grow a ponytail like someone else recommended. couldn't hurt. or a mullet?

[Ryan Silva]

It also doesn't hurt to go back and listen to some stuff you've done in the past. Do your recent mixes sound better than your old stuff? If so, you're improving so keep at it! I get in a funk from time to time but my mixes keep gradually getting better so I must be doing something right.

Somehow when I do this I tend to hear the improvement, but never seem to be sure weather it's my new Gear, or an improvement of my skills.

Most likely the gear, I suck too.

[bannerj]

Good stuff.

If anyone wants to thrown down on my frustrations, I spill:

Like I said before, all my mixes sound pinched and thin. Mostly though I can't get my mixes to translate out of the studio.

I'm in an interesting situation. After tracking for a few years out of my home and never mixing there, I got hired to run the music for a chapel program at a small college. I record everything live and pick the best takes from the services. I've got really great student players. We've got an amazing team setting up mics too. I've done a lot of homework to make sure we can get good, usable sounds.

I've also been able to upgrade the mix room considerably. We've got a smart 12 channel Audient board. I use it to sum pairs. Over the summer I had the best acoustic designer treat the mix room. His tests show specs that are so good that the room could even be used for mastering.

The live records for the school are okay. I don't get any complaints. My biggest frustration is with my own music. Since I do worship music for a living, my side project is a culmination of all the things that I can't do in the chapel. I'm inspired by everything from Fourtet and Boards of Canada to Broken Social Scene and Grandaddy to Bon Iver and Jose Gonzalez. My wife is a well published poet. So the songs are interpretations of her words. She and both sing. I started everything with drums, vocals and acoustic guitars on my 5050 then dumped everything into Digital Performer. For the past few years I've been adding lots of layers of vocals, keys and synths. I like noise. My goal has been to get as many of my friends to contribute as possible. I really LOVE all that we've done so far.

I spent so much time putting together a mix of the title track. I brought my wife in. She liked it so much she cried. Then I bounced it down and took it home to listen on my home system. Thin. Lifeless. Boring.

I suspect that somehow I'm having trouble knowing exactly what I want all this mess to sound like. My musical interests are so much on the independent side of things, that I wonder if I have any true musical reference for what things should sound like. I've never mixed a straight up rock studio record. Part of the reason why I can get away with the live recordings for the chapel is that I ride the room mics up so much. I don't try to make it polished. But with my own stuff I've been trying to find an organic balance between lofi and hifi sounds. And I'm not sure I can even do lowfi in an interesting way!

Okay....there's my boohoo. Kick my ass.

One of the contributors to my project is coming in tonight to play a concert on campus tomorrow. I'm going to talk all this through with him. He's doing really well for himself. Maybe he'll have some real honest feedback for me.

[snoopy23]

First of all, you must entertain the possibility that you do in fact suck. However, the fact that you are trying to improve shows that you at least want to succeed, which, as we all know, is half the challenge. I would suggest off the top that you look at getting some better monitors and a pair or two of cheap stereo speakers so that you can listen to your mixes coming out of different speakers, as wll as trying some mixing with headphones. This should highlight most issues of translation before you even take the cd out to your car. Also, examine your sound sources. Are you using real or canned drums? I found that a crappy drum machine can suck all the life right out of a mix. Are your guitar tones too processed? Sometimes a more "raw" guitar tone with rough edges and all can add to a track. Also, find someone else with some studio savvy to come in a do a mix on your system, this will be a quick way to discover if the issue is you or the processs. Remember; you can't polish a turd, but you can wipe away at it until it's gone!! Good luck.

[JGriffin]

First of all, you must entertain the possibility that you do in fact suck.

This is true regardless of what you're trying to do, whether it's mixing, songwriting, singing, playing, race-car driving, building houses...

[kayagum]

I spent so much time putting together a mix of the title track.

This could be part of your problem. This isn't necessarily true for a lot of people, but my personal experience tells me to try:

(a) working fast. your first instinct (whether performing or mixing) is often correct.

(b) to never fall too much in love with a mix. if you have the luxury of time, put it away and come back to it in a week.

(c) to test on "real world" setups: boomboxes, iPods, car stereos. I also like the "listen from next door" method- it's amazing what jumps out or is lacking. absolutely critical, and something you seem to have found out the hard way.

(d) to make subtractive mixing my friend. subtle panning is also your friend. subtractive editing (when in doubt, leave it out) is your best friend. All of these create room and space, often the qualities lacking in a flat mix.

(e) to think of mixing and recording as a documentary, not a 1000 page Harry Potter novel. Could it be performed in real time? if not, a good candidate for subtractive editing. Focusing on the documentary side of things will help make the different sounds real, not necessarily hyperreal.

(f) to not overdo anything with the monitoring. what's your bass/subwoofer situation? Too much or too little can absolutely ruin a mix.

(g) to use the room- do you have ambient room mics? do you use some parallel room reverb? that helps too.

Don't give up- give yourself a chance, and try to think about other aspects of mixing. There's more to mixing than levels and EQ.

[Jay Reynolds]

I suspect that somehow I'm having trouble knowing exactly what I want all this mess to sound like.

That might be the crux of your issue. If you can't see the shape buried in the uncarved block of marble, maybe you're not a sculptor. Doesn't mean you can't paint or compose or choreograph or whatever. But maybe that one discipline isn't your thing.